The National Pulse

‘Til Death Do Us Pay?

As retired boomers head to the golf course, courts look at limits on alimony

Posted Sep 1, 2008 7:05 AM CST
By Wendy N. Davis

Timothy Taylor
Photo by Christopher Navin

With 38 years of marriage, three grown children and a $900,000 home under their belts, the Long Island couple de­cided to divorce.

He was the breadwinner, earning between $100,000 and $300,000 as a car dealer. She had a high school diploma but hadn’t worked in years because of a host of medical conditions, including breast cancer and Epstein-Barr infection.

The 58-year-old ex-husband had expected to retire at age 65, but the divorce threw a wrinkle in his plans. If he retired, he wouldn’t have the money to pay his ex-wife’s maintenance. While the 57-year-old woman collected $692 a month in disability, that wasn’t enough to support her lifestyle.

Faced with the dilemma posed by this later-in-life divorce, state Su­preme Court Judge Anthony J. Falanga of Nassau County came up with an unusual compromise. He ordered the ex-husband to pay maintenance of $3,000 a month for the next 10 years. With that order, he’ll be able to retire, albeit later than he wanted.

And the ex-wife? She “will have to engage in at least part-time employment through her 70th birthday,” Falanga wrote in J.S. v. J.S., issued in March.

The ruling, a case of first impression in New York state, attempts to cope with a growing problem: How to handle alimony when one ex-spouse is nearing retirement and facing the prospect of long-term support obligations.

Faced with the collapse of a long-standing marriage in which only one spouse was the breadwinner, most courts tend to order lifetime alimony, says Milwaukee attorney Gregg Mark Herman, immediate-past chair of the ABA Family Law Section.

That’s why the Long Island case is such an outlier. “Usually in long-term marriages, you’re going to see long-term support,” says Herman, “because at age 57 she’s not going to rehabilitate herself and go back to school.”

The problem for those in late middle age facing looming alimony payments is that many expect to retire at age 65. A lifetime alimony award could effectively mean that one spouse has to work well into old age. And the dilemma applies to those divorcing later as well as those already divorced who are looking to modify their payments.

SHIFTS IN LIFE EXPECTANCY

Falanga acknowledged the problem in his decision: “It is commonplace today for people to live well into their 80s and 90s. Courts must begin to acknowledge that an award of nondurational maintenance may require a payor spouse in his or her 90s and older to continue to support a dependent spouse in his or her 90s and older.”

In addition to the many factors judges consider in whether to grant nondurational alimony, Falanga added a new one: “the prospective financial circumstances and work life expectancy of the paying spouse.” Ignoring this, he wrote, would come “at the expense of enslaving the historic wage earner to indefinite years of employment beyond any reasonable expected retirement.”

While a first in New York, courts around the country are weighing the issue as divorced people near retirement. Many states liberalized divorce laws in the 1970s, only to find now that divorced baby boomers are leaving their offices for the golf course—and leaving judges to figure out what to do about alimony.

All states except Texas—which lim­its alimony awards to three years—provide for lifetime or indefinite alimony in some circumstances. In Florida, advocates unsuccessfully tried to get a constitutional amendment on the 2008 ballot that would have prohibited alimony altogether.

Of course, despite lifetime alimony awards, many judges expect that divorced people will one day retire. Typically, when the ex-spouse paying alimony is ready to stop working, he or she returns to court and asks the judge to reduce the support award in expectation of the lower earnings, Herman says.

Overall, judges have broad dis­cre­tion when deciding whether to reduce alimony obligations. At the same time, many divorced wage earners don’t have the option of working into their 80s or 90s. In fact, some expect to retire before age 65, says Boston matrimonial lawyer David Lee.

“Some employment situations have built-in retirement ages, which are not traditional,” he says. “In the investment banking field, many people tell you it’s unusual to be 55, or older, and still in the field and gen­erating the type of income that you do at young ages.”

Lee says current practices leave litigants uncertain. “Once alimony is set, if there’s no current knowledge of what the circumstances will be in the future, the judges need to be cautious about setting a definite termination point,” he says.

But, he adds, open-ended orders combined with vast discretion leave divorced people in limbo—even when the marriage itself wasn’t long-term. “There’s no standard set as to how it is that an obligor is relieved of the responsibility.”

REFASHIONING SUPPORT AWARDS

That ambiguity is spurring reform efforts. In Massachusetts, the state and Boston bar associations have created a joint task force to explore alimony awards, including what standards judges use to make decisions about modifying support awards. Lee, who is a co-chair, says the bar groups expect to issue a preliminary report this fall.

The effort was prompted by a 2007 state appellate court case, Greenberg v. Greenberg. A 65-year-old divorced man, Frederic Greenberg, sought to modify his $1,050 weekly payments because he was retiring from his job as an ophthalmologist. The trial judge granted his application and reduced payments to his wife, Suzanne, to $400 a week.

But the appellate court reversed, concluding “that the modification judgment will not permit Suzanne to meet her needs (as measured by the parties’ marital standard of living), and ... Frederic is able to meet his support obligations (established at the time of the last modification judgment) without diminishing his capital assets or affecting his ability to maintain his standard of living.”

The court said that his investments alone afforded enough income to continue the alimony payments; the simple fact of his retirement wasn’t sufficient to justify relief.

MASSACHUSETTS CONSIDERS CAP

Meanwhile, a bill before the Massachusetts legislature would cap alimony duration at half the length of the marriage or 12 years, which­ever is less. The measure, Bill No. 1567, presented by former Massa­chusetts House member Stephen P. LeDuc (who resigned in February), would also provide cost-of-living increases if the supporting party’s income rises.

The bill’s author, attorney Timothy Taylor of Lincoln, Mass., contends that alimony is largely harmful because it promotes financial dependence and adds to the bitterness of most divorces.

“There are situations where the supported party is really incapable of being self-sufficient,” Taylor says, “and alimony serves a purpose there.”

But Taylor, himself divorced, believes there should always be a cut-off date. “You can’t perpetuate this financial connection decade after decade,” he says. “It’s time to say, ‘Payor, you’re at last off the hook.’ ”

Adds Taylor: “What most of the public probably thinks is that alimony serves some sort of beneficial purpose. But it’s become more the rule as opposed to the exception, and it should be the exception.”

The bill was referred for further study and is expected to be reintroduced next year, Taylor says.

In J.S., the Long Island case, the judge didn’t want to put the burden of returning to court and filing future motions on the ex-husband. So to forestall that possibility, he issued an order with a built-in cut-off date in 10 years. The wife’s lawyer, Jay Davis of Davis & Altarac in Garden City, N.Y., says the decision was fair, but that he’s still planning to appeal.

He chalked up the result to the judge’s view that “a man shouldn’t be stuck having to pay that money when he’s 75, 80 years old.”

“The theory is right,” Davis says. “I just wish it hadn’t applied to my client.”

Comments

1.

David
Aug 27, 2008 12:50 PM CST

Marriage under current laws is an all-downside / no-upside proposition if you are the higher earning spouse. It is a system where the less you put into it during the marriage, the more you get out of it afterward. Under the same ground-rules Communism only lasted 60 years before collapsing. It has now been 30 years since no-fault reforms. Let’s see where the institution of marriage stands in another 30 years.

Divorce is a magical occurence where obligations that didn’t exist even during the marriage itself suddenly appear.

When a married bread-winner loses his job at the car plant both he and his dependent spouse are out of luck. There are no courts to give contempt orders to anyone to fix the problem. When a divorced man loses his job at the same car plant, it is not the recipient ex-dependent spouse’s problem. There are explicit government guarantees that kick in. No wonder so many people are chosing divorce over staying married. Being divorced is so much more adventagous. You are guaranteed a revenue stream, where your old married-self had no such guarantees. Amazing.

In an age when people divorce at the drop of a hat and where 70% of divorces are filed by the lesser-earning spouse, such laws are nothing but barbaric.

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2.

Celia
Aug 27, 2008 2:43 PM CST

David said:

“Divorce is a magical occurence where obligations that didn’t exist even during the marriage itself suddenly appear.”

David has a valid point. Children and spouses within a marriage have no “effective” legal claim in equity but upon divorce these do indeed appear as if by magic. A good example might be one in which the principal breadwinning partner in a marriage earns a lot but is penurious. In this situation divorce becomes an effective vehicle to relieve the worker of his/her hard-won gains on an “equity” basis. Thus, we see the applicant claiming that the sandwiches she/he made on the weekends for her/his brain surgeon partner constitute a 50% entitlement to the marital assets and a continuing income stream (one to which she/he may have had no access during the marriage). This claim is despite no further sandwich provision by the applicant to the respondent. Call me cynical but in this day and age it is hard to imagine how anyone with even a modicum of gray matter might believe that making some sandwiches is the equivalent of brain surgery let alone that the sandwiches themselves contributed to the surgical skill-set or its utilization – (this is predicated on the argument that the act of sandwich making is the basis of the claim in equity).


A meaningful and thorough legal (vs equity) analysis would cast doubt on whether or not alimony was reasonable, let alone desirable from a societal perspective today. Thus, it really amounts to little more than state-enforced wealth redistribution in this age of gender equality - much like our taxation system – which taxes those who “work” to a much greater extent than those who don’t (cf, inter alia, investment capital gains, welfare recipients etc) – the state takes something from those who make a genuine and measurable contribution and gives it to those who, for whatever reason, do not. Clearly this amounts to penalizing those who work. Alimony certainly served a valid function when women were disenfranchised by society (it wasn’t so long ago that wives and children were a man’s chattels), those days are long-gone and so should be alimony – everyone who is capable should contribute to their own sustenance.

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3.

tonia
Aug 28, 2008 5:29 PM CST

This is precisely why I am happily co-habitating after 5 years in a stable relationship. I am scared!

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4.

David
Aug 29, 2008 10:10 AM CST

Celia -
More an more career oriented Men and Women are saying no to $46,873/per-sandwich deals going forward. I’ll have mine from Subway for five dollars thank you. For the first time in US history based on 2006 data, there are more single-led households than married households. This is not a one time fluke, but a long term trend.

A big part of the reason is people are avoiding marriage is the Moral Hazzard that is embedded in our divorce laws where the lesser-earner gets to take the higher-earner to the cleaners; no-fault needed, simply file when you think the time is ripe. It’s like hitting the Cash Out button in an Atlantic City slot machine.

The marriage->divorce->alimony gravy train sounds all good and well. That is until you kill the golden goose that has been laying the eggs for the last 30 years. Just like the imploding Housing/Mortgage industry that became the victim of its own wild success, the Marriage/Divorce industry has been milking this cow for what its worth. What will the Family Law professionals do in the next 5,10,15, 20 years when the business volume is simply no longer there? People are no longer getting married, so who are you going to divorce?

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5.

Optimist
Sep 2, 2008 8:26 PM CST

...who are you going to divorce?  Oh that’s an easy one.  Magically, same-sex marriage will be approved by every state legislature, opening the door for thousands more new divorces and alimony/child support opportunities.

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6.

David
Sep 6, 2008 3:19 PM CST

In 8-10 years time when we see that first lifetime alimony award for “Peter to keep paying Paul for life” then the jig will be up.

What we will have for open display will be the textbook definition of slavery/peonage in its purest form. One able bodied man being forced under government sanctioned force to hand over the labors of his entire life to another able bodied man. Taking gender out of the entire equation will remove the historic/cultural smokescreen and make it bare for all to see. It will be an emperor has no clothes moment.

After that it is only a matter of time before the US Supreme Court has a say in the matter of whether lifetime alimony is constitutional or not.

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7.

Ronnie
Sep 6, 2008 9:15 PM CST

I’ll keep this short.  I disagree.  Perhaps it’s because I’m a family law attorney whose practice is 90% divorce.  There’s a reason income in marriage is considered marital.  If one party consents to the other not working, that’s a marital decision.  Sorry, tough.  Should’ve thought about that.  Besides, at least in my state, spousal support is completely at judicial discretion.  But I’m sorry that I just don’t feel that if someone didn’t want his or her spouse to work, that they should be allowed to drop-kick him or her to the curb in divorce with no means to live on until suitable employment is found.  Just my opinion.

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8.

David
Sep 9, 2008 9:22 AM CST

Ronnie - Keep up the great work.

According to the Rutgers University Marriage Study: http://marriage.rutgers.edu/Publications/SOOU/SOOU2005.pdf

FIGURE 1
Number of Marriages per 1,000
Unmarried Women Age 15 and
Older, by Year, United States:

1960 73.5
1961 72.2
1962 71.2
1963 73.4
1964 74.6
1965 75.0
1966 75.6
1967 76.4
1968 79.1
1969 80.0
1970 76.5
1972 77.9
1975 66.9
1977 63.6
1980 61.4
1983 59.9
1985 56.2
1987 55.7
1990 54.5
1991 54.2
1992 53.3
1993 52.3
1995 50.8
2000 46.5
2004 39.9

Note the accelerating drop over the last 20 years. Why do you think this is? Are there any social policies we should start rethinking about?

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9.

Disgusted on Long Island
Sep 9, 2008 4:12 PM CST

First and foremost, Justice Falanga’s Nassau County Supreme Court decision, a case of first impression mind you, ignored certain key facts.  The wife of 39 years was very clearly ill during this trial.  So ill in fact that rather than permit her to use the facilities, he instructed a court officer to bring her over a bucket so she might vomit into that during the trial.

It seems that the wife of 39 years was suffering from lung cancer.  Yet, though it was apparent she was ill, the ruling still assumed that she might go out to work.

So, today while she saddles up for double lung surgery, her husband, the one the Judge was so concerned about his retirement, lies with a very wealthy woman on the Gold Coast of Long Island.

Wife of 39 years, if she survives the double lung surgery and then recovery, is forced to sell her home, find suitable housing and to know that when she is 69, she can assured to eat cat food and live in a box so her ex husband can continue to live in style.

Sadly, this reporter does not have the facts of reading the papers or sitting in the courtroom and watching what went on.

What Justice Falanga’s decision says is women, don’t get married…for when you spouse decides to trade up, even after 39 years, your life will go straight down the tubes so he does not get inconvenienced.

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10.

lopine
Sep 12, 2008 5:34 AM CST

I strongly disagree with the notion that permanent alimony is inappropriate in situations such as these.  After 39 years of a marriage in which the husband presumably enjoyed the benefits of a wife that “kept the house and children” for him and a wife with little or no employment history that would enable her to get a more-than-minimum wage job, exactly how is this woman supposed to live when the alimony ends?  The most likely scenario is not that the wife will suddenly be able to support herself but that their children and social services will end up having to do so.  I’ve watched this happen time and again.  Basically, the husband’s “freedom” is going to be paid for by his children and/or us taxpayers.  One can only agree with the “fairness” of this decision if they don’t consider its long term consequences.  A big part of my motivation to be a lawyer was to avoid such financial dependence but not every woman who married decades ago had that option and many of their husbands didn’t want them to work, especially in a career that would have enabled them to earn “$100-300k” annually. In this situation, the husband was in a far superior position to save for retirement over the next 5-10 years after which the alimony could have been reduced but not eliminated.  And what kind of idiot lawyer does the wife have that he’d say the decision was “fair” but he plans to appeal.  That poor woman!

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11.

prosecute
Sep 12, 2008 8:53 AM CST

But wait!  When a woman DECIDES to be a stay-at-home wife and/or mother, she is not keeping house and providing childcare for her husband—she receives a benefit for doing that.  Presumably, her husband labors and provides her with food, clothing, shelter, and whatever other amenities their lifestyle provides.  These are things that she, as a single woman, would have to buy or obtain on her own.  It seems unfair that the courts should tax the husband, in perpetuity,  because the wife chose to stay at home.  She got her benefit of the bargain while she CHOSE to stay at home.  And what about the truly wealthy?  I mean, if a woman is married to a mogul, a la Bill Gates or Warren Buffett, a wife is most likely not doing housework and a lot of childrearing chores—Ms. Gates does not wake up every morning and mop the floors of the Gates’ 20,000 square foot mansion. 
I agree that women who stay at home should be given some maintenance until they can get on their feet.  How much is housekeeping and childrearing worth?  Figure that number out and then subtract the costs of housing, food, clothing, and entertainment/travel.  The difference may provide some serious insight to the judge who decides whether to award lifetime maintenance, a piece of the pension, half of the house, and so-called marital assets.  How about making the husband pay for four years plus another three—enough time for the wife to get a bachelor’s degree and a graduate degree (if she doesn’t have one already), so that she can care for herself and embody the gender equity we have all been striving for.
The real object lesson here is not that people shouldn’t get married (although that should be harder to do than it currently is)—it’s that it this modern era, women have got to look out for themselves.  I truly believe that women are equals and should have every opportunity that men have, but you can’t be equals and then still play the 1950’s housewife, expecting to be kept when the June Cleaver dream turns to a nightmare.  Go put on the big girl underwear and face the beast every day like most men do.

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12.

Linda MacDonald Glenn
Sep 12, 2008 9:39 AM CST

Prosecute, you make it sounds like the wife decides in a vacuum, without consulting the husband.  BOTH should decide; BOTH should choose and go into the marriage with eyes wide open.  If one party feels that he or she is doing the other a favor by “letting them stay at home”, well, that is a recipe for eventual resentment and serious problems.  There are issues that should be discussed before marriage—I think it is a good idea to advise pre-marital counseling to couples of all ages with someone who will bring these issues to front and center, so that people go in knowing what they are getting into.

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13.

David
Sep 12, 2008 10:15 AM CST

LInda M Glenn makes a very good point. It’s a worldwide financial crisis when people don’t read all the pages of their mortgage-agreement before signing it. Yet people sign a much more binding and potentially financially ruinious contract without giving it a second thought every day. The Marriage Contract. Heck they don’t even read the cover page of the contract.

If people spent 1/10th of the amount of time they put into wedding planning, catering, church procession dry-runs, tailoring, rehersal dinners, etc into studying their state’s Family Law and spending a few hours in their local Family/Probate Court; then they would be much better informed.

I would go one point furhter than Linda and say that State’s should make it MANDATORY that people getting married must go through:

1. Pre-Marital Counseling (must be state licensed outlets; must go beyond religious themes)
2. A primer course on Family Law the way we require driver-candidates to take a traffic education class and test.
3. A mandatory half-day visit to a local Family Court where they watch an actual divorce proceeding in action.
4. Possibly mandatory pre-nuptial agreement. At least it must be something that the parties must OPT-OUT of instead of the other way around.

Wouldn’t the world be a much better place? So we would have less of these acrimonious “buckets-of-puke” conversations after the fact (like the earlier post).

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14.

Horrified
Sep 12, 2008 1:27 PM CST

I am an ex, who gave up 31 years of my life, first to support my ex- husband through professional school, then back to school for a JD and an LLM. Yes, I got my degrees before the kids, and never worked as an attorney because I wanted to be at home with my children.
Because my ex made a good living ( and still does) and was able to support us, I stayed home, drove carpool, and served as the housewife, giving up any chance of a great law career. At the divorce, the court granted me 6.5 years of alimony, so I could rehabilitate myself! Just long enough so I could draw from my retirement fund at age 59.5! My earning capacity will never equal what my ex earns, my standard of living has decreased, I cannot provide for our children as I would choose. Without experience and with age discrimination, I have found no law firm willing to hire me. They can pay a Jr. partner less.

In May, my job was terminated in a reorganization.I have been applying to jobs for 2 years, sensing that was coming. I have received no offers despite a decent resume that was built only within the last 10 years.

It is outrageous to suggest that a man should be rewarded for his expectation to retire at 65, while abandoning the ex wife to a life on social security and if lucky a small pension.
What about the wife’s expectations? In a long term marriage, when each started with nothing and the man could not have achieved as he did without the support of the wife, mother and homemaker, why is it OK to punish the wife so the husband can retire to a life of luxury?
It is a fact that a substantial number (37%) of divorced and separated older women live in poverty, with less resources and lower incomes. We also live longer- 13 to 14 years longer. And it is a fact that a woman’s standard of living decreases after divorce while a man’s standard of living increases.

Finding a decent job with good benefits and health insurance is almost impossible in this economy.
What about the wife’s expectations?
The courts should not enslave the wage earner- but it is fine to abandon the wife who gave up her career to support him and raise the family?
My advice to all you women going through divorce in a long-term marriage, DON’T DO IT!
Suffer through it. Because freedom means lower quality of life and in some cases poverty.
Or don’t stop working and farm your children out so your resume looks good in case of divorce.
Divorce court is a farce, there is no equity and the attorneys make all the money perpetuating the divorce.
Divorced men often care more about their NEW families and frequently cut off the first family, on the claim that they now have to support a new family, and the ex-wife can be someone else’ s problem.

And how sad that courts are more interested in the right to golf course than the obligation to support a devoted spouse.

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15.

David
Sep 12, 2008 1:49 PM CST

Have Your Cake and Eat it Too?:

“And how sad that courts are more interested in the right to golf course than the obligation to support a devoted spouse.”

Newsflash: You are no longer the devoted spouse. You are the EX. Instead of “suffering through it” like you said in your own words, you divorced they guy and chose “To be Free”.

You know millions of people with high paying jobs wake up each morning and decide whether to stay with their demanding, stressful, and often oppressive jobs. Whether it’s Big Law, or Consulting, being an M.D., commercial fisherman, Contractor in Iraq etc, these people consider their two choices. To keep the job (I.e. “suffer through it”) or to quit and be “free” but poorer.

There are no courts to order their ex-employers to keep paying them their old salaries after they quite. Are there?

How can you expect to divorce your ex-husband, but remain married to the guy’s salary? Isn’t this expecting to eat your cake and have it too?

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16.

Randee
Sep 13, 2008 4:03 PM CST

David,  Disgusted, lopine and Horrified are right.  Sounds like you are paying your ex more than you want and you are bitter and angry about it.  How can you assume to woman chose to divorce the man?  In most of the cases I know of long-term marriages, it is the other way around.  You don’t get it and probably never will.  God bless your ex.

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17.

Pete
Sep 14, 2008 11:57 AM CST

I find it very funny that the very same people who made a big to-do about women’s liberation and probably supported feminism, are essentially saying that women somehow become inferior to men and are incapable of taking care of themselves, earning a bit of money and supporting themselves without a man there to give them all he has.

Horrified “gave up” her career to drive the family car. How wonderful. Let’s examine just how well her career was doing. Some people would call that early retirement.

Guess what, if you use children as an excuse to retire from the workforce, you won’t have any money in case something happens to your husband.

Women are their own persons and to have somebody responsible for taking care of them financially for life is a concept that should have been left behind in the 1950s.

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18.

irlandes
Sep 14, 2008 3:30 PM CST

It seems everyone is missing the real point here. No-fault, often known as man-fault divorce, since most divorces are initiated by women, with no need to show cause except in NY state;  mostly in marriages with few problems, except she gets bored or feels neglected or prefers the pool boy, is a mistake.

No one, man or woman but mostly women who get big financial incentives to divorce, should be able to break up a marriage with no reason at all.  In fact, it should be a darned good reason.

And, to file for a standard recipe divorce, then ask for child support or alimony is a fraud on the court. The traditional stated purposes of marriage as you know are to legitimize sex; and to provide for support of the family members.

So, when someone files for divorce, they are saying some version of ‘the purpose of the marriage is ended’. But, then petitions the court to continue the marital responsibilities of the other party which proves the claim the purpose of the marriage is ended is a fraud on the court.

#7 Ronnie: you assume it was a mutual decision. See Horrified, who admits it was her decision to stay at home with her babies.  Why would a judge use a non-rebuttable presumption that her quit was a mutual decision with no real evidence?  Just as there is a non-rebuttable presumption that a millionaire or billionaire businessman only earned 1/2 of his income on his own merit, and his wife with no real visible success in life gets credit for the other half. 

This breeds extreme contempt for the courts of the US, I guarantee you.

Horrified, that claim women’s standard of living drops while men’s go up was based on lies by a woman named Lenore Weitzman. She made up some bogus data, knowing it is not permitted in our society for men to call women liars, so she happily lied. It is not that there were errors in her study. There was no study at all.

After her study was accepted by virtually every attorney and judge in the US, someone attempted to duplicate it and it simply was not true. When they asked for her data she whined the grad student who processed her numbers lost them. Har, har.

But, in the end, the answer is the same.  If divorce is hard on you women, you should demand the end of no-fault divorce, period.

Also, boredom or feeling neglected, is not suffering, except among the very rich.

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19.

Lane
Sep 15, 2008 8:51 AM CST

Posted by Optimist - Sep 2, 2008 09:26 pm CDT

...who are you going to divorce?  Oh that’s an easy one.  Magically, same-sex marriage will be approved by every state legislature, opening the door for thousands more new divorces and alimony/child support opportunities.

Hey Optimist - there’s a lot of sperm left at the sperm BANK.  Maybe they’ll get creative.

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20.

Lane
Sep 15, 2008 9:01 AM CST

Posted by Ronnie - Sep 6, 2008 10:15 pm CDT

Ronnie, What about when one spouse decides not to work but the decision wasn’t mutual?  Tough luck again?

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21.

Lane
Sep 15, 2008 9:54 AM CST

One last thing.  When are people going to stop saying they stayed home for 30 to 40 years to care for the children.  The same people that say the adult off-spring will have to support them in the event of a divorce if there isn’t alimony.  The children became self sufficient.
House cleaning?  Your adult children are gone.  The house won’t get messy when your both at work.

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22.

Celia
Sep 19, 2008 11:12 PM CST

Ronnie said:

“There’s a reason income in marriage is considered marital.”

Yes so those of you who practice family “law” can have something else to argue over.

“If one party consents to the other not working, that’s a marital decision.”

With respect, that’s somewhat oxymoronic – any decision (material or otherwise) made during marriage can be deemed to be marital – if a judge says so. None the less, a significant problem with that argument is that the implied contract is to allow one party to not work in exchange for implied (or perhaps tacit) duties to be provided by the other party – otherwise we could just give the implied contractual relationship a different name. Thus, in effect, the implied contract is clear – one party works in exchange for duties on the part of the other party.

“Sorry, tough. Should’ve thought about that.”

You guys in “family” law certainly live up to your reputations. The agreement was clear – efforts expended by each party are given in exchange. This is not a case of, “I agree to support you, even if you no longer keep your end of the bargain”. The, “sorry tough” argument is a way of saying to the working party – who has made the real sacrifice – “your work is of no greater value than my staying home and enjoying the tremendous privilege of watching my/our kids grow.” The argument that, “I’ll stay home and sacrifice my career for the good of the marriage and the children etc” is a not just patently trite, it is also a bit thread-bare. It doesn’t really wash in light of the patent hollowness of the claim. IT IS A PRIVILEGE to be able to stay home and watch the kids grow – one provided by the generosity of someone else. Family law, in effect, turns someone’s generosity into a financial penalty – in perpetuity, ultimately, it constitutes a segue into a lifetime of “free rides” at the real cost of drudgery for someone else – what a sick joke “family” law has become. Sorry I exaggerate – it has always been a bit of a legal joke, it is just more of one now.

“But I’m sorry that I just don’t feel that if someone didn’t want his or her spouse to work, that they should be allowed to drop-kick him or her to the curb . . . .”

Nor do I but let’s examine this a bit more closely – Heather Mills McCartney ($45M), Kevin Federline ($19), Juanita Jordan ($168M), Marcia Diamond ($150), Amy Irving Spielberg ($100M), Melissa Mathison Ford ($85M), Cindy Silva Costner ($80M) just to name a very few (of the many thousands of such cases). I can see your point, these ex-spouses (who lived in the very lap of luxury for years on end – without making anything even remotely approximating an equal contribution - were drop-kicked to the curb.

If you guys could simply avoid the emotive – to wit “drop kick to the curb” and the “vomit bucket in court” of the dying applicant/respondent (it doesn’t even matter which) and stick to the real issue – does anyone (other than a parent to a child) owe someone else a living, for ever or at all?

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