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Another Sad Tale of an Underemployed Lawyer: This One Is a Topless Dancer

By Debra Cassens Weiss

Sep 14, 2011, 06:28 am CST

Comments

Sad tale or happy ending?

By NoleLaw on 2011 09 14, 7:21 am CST

happy ending.

An unemployed person is now working.

By Paul the Magyar on 2011 09 14, 7:23 am CST

Why go back to school for a master’s degree if no one but a strip joint is hiring? What is that additional degree going to do for her, except pile up debt?

By LTE on 2011 09 14, 7:35 am CST

That is not the stimulus package we were hoping for.

By Tim on 2011 09 14, 7:56 am CST

There’s an old joke - What’s the difference between a lawyer and a prostitute?

By Unused JD on 2011 09 14, 8:13 am CST

Well, if she had graduated from the University of Illinois, the placement office would count this as a successful plaement.

By 30611 on 2011 09 14, 8:23 am CST

Perhaps an upscale customer would be willing to pay for intelligent conversation .

3. LTE Sep 14, 2011 8:35 AM CDT “Why go back to school for a master’s degree if no one but a strip joint is hiring? What is that additional degree going to do for her, except pile up debt?”

By 7. Jim-OH 2011-09-14 1103 -0400 [ • | • ] on 2011 09 14, 9:06 am CST

When times get tough, the true character of a person shows clearly. I hope she never becomes a lawyer.

By Scott on 2011 09 14, 11:55 am CST

Scott @ 8: Why, Scott? Because she didn’t make partner at BigLaw? Because she took a job not traditionally associated with a legal background? Flipping elitists like you are the reason so many people hate lawyers.

By BMF on 2011 09 14, 12:02 pm CST

Geez, Scott. She worked multiple jobs to keep ahead. She’s putting herself through school. She didn’t decide to get food stamps and live off welfare the rest of her life. Don’t let your morals say this is a bad person - you haven’t even met her! Maybe you should visit a strip club, have a beer, and loosen up.

By Les on 2011 09 14, 4:08 pm CST

And don’t forget to tip well.

By BMF on 2011 09 14, 4:57 pm CST

I have to agree with Les. Plenty of attorneys patronize these establishments. Topless dancing is not the epitome of immoral deparavity. It is not a crime and, as long as one is not coerced, it is not victimization. While it is not clear what market she was in as an attorney, or how talented an attorney she is, the fact remains that she is a self-starter supporting herself and hurting no one. It is difficult to justify condemning her under these circumstances.

By Paul the Magyar on 2011 09 14, 5:03 pm CST

I agree, and furthermore, this story goes to show how lawyers and topless dancers are not always poles apart. I will be interested to see what Carla says on the Question of the Week, as to how long she spends grooming before work.

By B. McLeod on 2011 09 14, 6:36 pm CST

ABA Journal should see if they can get her to write a “Legal Rebels” blog.

By Atty on 2011 09 14, 8:17 pm CST

The difference between topless dancing and being a lawyer is that one requires morally questionable behavior in the pursuit of a dollar that often leaves your feeling ashamed and unclean while the other is dancing naked.

By W.R.T. on 2011 09 14, 9:15 pm CST

I don’t have exhaustive knowledge of the subject, but if she only makes $50 and hour on a good weekend night there seems to be something wrong.

By Just the facts, Ma'am on 2011 09 14, 9:46 pm CST

I know of a CPA who made more money as a waitress than as a Cpa.

By zekethewonderdog on 2011 09 14, 9:48 pm CST

Maybe she was a really good waitress, Zeke.

W.R.T., I would note that “Carla” is only dancing topless, not naked. Not that I would get all judgmental about it if she was dancing naked, just wanted to clarify the facts.

By B. McLeod on 2011 09 15, 6:26 am CST

No surprise here. Lawyers never get tipped.

By AndytheLawyer on 2011 09 15, 11:54 am CST

I dated a colege professor who made more money as a weekend waitress.

By Paul the Magyar on 2011 09 15, 1:11 pm CST

Even they belong to a lawyer.
Keep dancing, hon. It’s honest work, something that the lawyers at your firm probably didn’t understand.

By I Like Boobies on 2011 09 15, 11:02 pm CST

Andy, I got tipped once. First year out of school, I did a real estate closing for a client. Day of the closing he tucked a Benjamin in my shirt pocket, patted me on the back and was out the door.

Now I do weightier stuff and I keep hoping that someone is going to lay an S-Class on me after a big win. Nothing so far.

By Just the facts, Ma'am on 2011 09 16, 2:05 am CST

I’d sure love to know the name of the firm that fired her; they could use a good public shaming.

By borisjimbo on 2011 09 16, 2:52 am CST

I knew a HS teacher who needed to waitress to make ends meet in NVa. @Jim-OH, you mean like Woody Allen’s “Whore of Mensa”?

By borisjimbo on 2011 09 16, 2:55 am CST

Law firms like to hire the top of the law school class. It’s not surprising they didn’t hire the topless.

By Curmudgeon, Esq. on 2011 09 16, 5:50 am CST

That industry has a peculiar employment characteristic: the longer you have been working as a topless dancer, the less you are in demand. But at least in this young lady’s case, it enables her to keep abreast of the law.

By MikeCG on 2011 09 16, 6:24 am CST

Is hanging out a shingle that hard for these people? If pole dancing is the best she can do to make a living (rather than practice her profession) then maybe she is where she needs to be. This degrades the profession in general and women in the profession in particular (in the eyes of some). I am not looking to start a fight with anybody, I don’t wanna go “tit” for tat, but this is something I have been wanting to get off of my “chest” for a long time. This is just what I feel to the “bare” “naked” truth. The job market is in decline from the “top-down”. Jeez- I could go on all day with the puns.

By Alton Johnson on 2011 09 16, 6:30 am CST

Americans are such prudes. You’d think we never got past our puritanical origins. Seems a lot of us are still hung up on Victorian modes. Better put a skirt on that piano.

By Bill on 2011 09 16, 6:49 am CST

Thanks, WRT, I LOVED your comment! :-)))

By JJ on 2011 09 16, 6:56 am CST

I would hire this woman immediately.

By NYer on 2011 09 16, 6:58 am CST

I think that WRT in Comment 15 nailed it. No more need be said.

Come on, people. Practicing law isn’t that great. It’s a job, like any other. Exotic dance might allow her to, you know, have a life and be human and stuff like that. Who is the fool here?

By Just Another Lawyer on 2011 09 16, 7:30 am CST

@ Scott, comment number 8, what is your fear if she becomes a lawyer again, that she may randomly take her top off at work? Also you speak of the legal profession as if it is shrowded in intergrity and class. I think that most lawyers would agree that is not the case. I do not see how taking her top off makes her unfit for the legal profession when there are lawyers who are constantly given slaps on the wrist for dishonest acts and shady behavior.

By Frank on 2011 09 16, 7:32 am CST

This gives new meaning to entertainment law and tortes, not that there’s anything wrong with that.

By Kramer on 2011 09 16, 7:41 am CST

It is a sad reflection on the profession that when someone who is obviously competent (worked in the profession for 10 years!) must work in what we regard as a lower-class job and finds it is better than working with attorneys! I left after 23 years to become an elementary school teacher and found the kids more respectful and mature than many attorneys! The incivility among attorneys is rampant and even encouraged by judges who endure it and attorneys who themselves become uncivil just to keep up and because clients expect it. I had clients become mad because I was too polite and civil! Television and movies encourage this impression, and now clients expect it! West Virginia has it right—make attorneys act like grown ups and the entire culture will change. Punish attorneys who act like morons and we all are better.

By Lawrence on 2011 09 16, 7:55 am CST

WRT - bravo, funniest comment I’ve read in a while! I also got laid off from my atty job a few years ago. I took a paralegal job when I couldn’t find anything better. Had I known you can make $50/hr dancing topless, well…

By Jules78 on 2011 09 16, 8:06 am CST

I think she should combine her skills and knowledge and open up her own firm specializing in the legal issues of adult entertainers. Based on some of the comments here, clearly the legal profession doesn’t want to have anything to do with these people in legal capacity. I’m sure they have plenty of legal issues and cash to pay their legal bills!

By Atty452 on 2011 09 16, 8:23 am CST

WRT - spot on.

Lawrence - I agree with most of what you said, but go easy on the exclamation marks. I once had a client become upset and tell me I didn’t curse enough.

By The Naked Truth on 2011 09 16, 8:24 am CST

I am a recent grad and since I haven’t found paid legal employment I’m waiting tables and making more doing that, at far less hours a week, than my friends who have staff attorney positions and are miserable working 50+ hours a week. All things considered, topless dancing or waiting tables is better than many alternatives

By robindc on 2011 09 16, 8:24 am CST

Funny thing is that this is nothing new. After my wife took the bar 5 yrs ago, we went for drinks with about a dozen or so friends from law school. The conversation did turn to plan B of working as a dancer to pay for student loans if they didn’t pass (they were well qualified by the way ;-) )and discussing the various strip clubs in CT . Hey, I’d take my shirt off for $50/hr if I could get it (being 5’4” and well over 300lbs - not very likely, but make me an offer!). There is nothing illegal about working in that field or going to that establishment. It isn’t much different from a waiter or waitress flirting to get a bigger tip. It is a service industry! I think she should stay in the field AND combine her legal background. Practice law while giving a lapdance. There would definitely be a line of men looking for divorce attorney’s then. It would be like combining the real estate sectgion of the paper with the obituaries, makes logical sense. Men who might be getting divorced because of infidelity, get a legal consult while having a lap dance. Talk about value added services for either the dance or the legal advice! I take it she must be attractive too considering the field. I once new someone that had a PHD, that made more money as a garbage man than as a teacher/professor. BTW, any pictures of this talented, resourceful attorney?

By Bob in CT on 2011 09 16, 8:28 am CST

35+ and still able to topless dance. Good for her.

By Bmac on 2011 09 16, 8:29 am CST

When you do the math, most biglaw associates only get paid $50/hour if you add up all the wasted non-billable time and the billable time together. Sad, but true.

By Gues on 2011 09 16, 8:39 am CST

# 22; it happens. A few years ago in a mid-Atlantic state, an extremely competent lawyer was asked by an overseas client to investigate and analyze the ramifications of engaging in some activity in the US. After receipt of what I presume was an exhaustive investigation, analysis and report. Shortly thereafter, along with a check for the probably high five figure fee, a Jaguar sedan was delivered to his office as a “tip” for a job well done. The lawyer is my father’s friend, so of course I don’t know any specific details. But the Jag was reeeeal sweet.

By Solo Steve on 2011 09 16, 8:43 am CST

This is a sad tale in some respects. That said, if Carla continues to advance in her new career, I see happy endings in her future.

By Lance on 2011 09 16, 9:14 am CST

Bob in CT @39: ” Hey, I’d take my shirt off for $50/hr if I could get it (being 5’4” and well over 300lbs - not very likely, but make me an offer!). “

Maybe you could get people to pay you to keep your shirt on. :P

By kc on 2011 09 16, 9:15 am CST

Did anyone read any of the other articles in this edition of the ABA Journal?....eg: headline story “Lawyer gets 6 years for overbilling clients”. This woman’s tough and law abiding decision, probably was the result of pretty difficult times. A little more humility from her critics would be nice.

By Coach KG on 2011 09 16, 9:16 am CST

Scott—I hope she’s my opposing counsel in every case.—She’ll be honest—she’ll make a clean breast of things she has to get off her chest.

By NEW JERRY FROM KALIFORNIA on 2011 09 16, 9:25 am CST

I’d say the “true character” of anyone who is willing to do whatever (lawful) work it takes to keep a roof over her head is pretty darn admirable.

But maybe we’re misinterpreting Scott’s comment; maybe he was wishing her well in her new career and hoping—for her sake—that she never has to sink so low as to work as an attorney again!

By Lex Luthor on 2011 09 16, 9:41 am CST

i would rather lapdance naked for most of my clients than deal with their legal problems…..i just hope the lady does it in her briefs

By connie ling on 2011 09 16, 9:47 am CST

I agree with #15

Her happiness factor must be really high….to get paid for her natural talent…and not have to trade her soul to do it

practicing law is sometimes a soul draining task…we make arguments we dont believe in just because we are on the wrong side….she shows her boobs and probably cant beleive shes doing it, just because shes unemployed - pathetic just the same

By good job on 2011 09 16, 9:59 am CST

Hey Scott (Comment #8): I hope you never get laid off and are desperate like this lady to find work. But if you do and are reduced to pole dancing, you obviously have the neeeded prop very close at hand. Just reach behind you, and pull down.

By R on 2011 09 16, 10:04 am CST

Connie will you come work at my firm?

BTW it is not unusual at all to hear of students, especially grad students, dancing for dollars. And those in Nevada can legally go further into the “entertainment” realm. While I have reservations about the latter, perhaps illogically but that’s reality, I can’t find anything wrong with someone earning a legal living. I bet there are a lot of males, too, working in those places, some as “entertainers” but many as bouncers/bartenders—what’s the real difference?

The story would only be sad if the woman did not want to have that job, felt degraded, etc., but had no choice. Like some people stuck in some law firms do.

By Phil Addi on 2011 09 16, 10:13 am CST

Here is my big concern: an entry-level job once required only a HS diploma, later only a college degree and now, often, a masters degree is necessary to get one’s foot in the door. Mark my words, Carla is setting the bar (so to speak) and a time is coming when a JD will be required to enter the topless dancing profession. My heart goes out to all those ladies who will mount the pole to pay off their mountain of law school debt!

By mfargis on 2011 09 16, 10:19 am CST

I feel for the circumstances that got this young woman into that job, but I also question her wisdom in taking the job and advertising it through the media. I say this without passing any sort of moral judgment, but I think this might hurt her later in life. The legal field (at least in OR) is rather stodgy and “respectable”. The gap in her resume and the chance that an employer would discover her real identity would make many firms very reluctant to hire her, despite the legality of the work in question. I’m not saying it is right that this would hurt her employment opportunities, only that it is likely to do so. It’s still very hard for a woman to be taken seriously as an attorney, and I don’t see this helping her.

Also @Bob in CT, your comments are a bit gross. The journalists are purposely concealing this woman’s identity, and you’re asking for pictures and making glib comments about divorce.

By OR Lawyer on 2011 09 16, 10:43 am CST

Kudos to Carla for being able to pull off such a gig in her 30’s. Most people physically let themselves go after law school.

By Esq. on 2011 09 16, 10:55 am CST

I’m surprised no one mentioned the tip factor. Most all I know who earn tips do not claim the total amount made. I would suspect her “good” nights are far more than the $50 the article states. Just sayin.

By AZLaw on 2011 09 16, 11:10 am CST

WRT,(comment 15) Can I use your comment as my Facebook status?? I work in a law office and their is truth and humor in your comment. WELL DONE.

By SJR on 2011 09 16, 11:33 am CST

I wonder why something that not a necessity would be the place that would have all the job openings in tough times. It would seem that going to strip clubs would be one of the first thing that could be cut out of a budget.

By Mark on 2011 09 16, 11:37 am CST

*there

By SJR on 2011 09 16, 11:38 am CST

More power to her! Its not illegal, she can pay her bills, and eat everyday.

By Not Your Name on 2011 09 16, 11:54 am CST

Scott.The American Constitution is based on the Bible.The Bible reads, “Judge not, so that thou shall not be judged”.From your comments, I believe you are an elite.So why not try to assist Carla by getting her a better and more befitting job, than being so judgemental.God will bless you for that.
Sessi.

By SESSI AKOJENU on 2011 09 16, 11:59 am CST

I don’t understand the headline. Why is this story “sad”? She’s probably making more money than she would as a lawyer, in the current environment. The sad stories are of lawyers with six figure law school debt working for minimum wage. The fact that this lady chose to work in topless dancing is a value judgment that, frankly, is irrelevant to the story. I know of a lady who gave up being a corporate associate in New York (big bucks) to become a fully nude dancer in Las Vegas (much bigger bucks). She did all-nighters in both jobs but gets to sleep late in Vegas. She was abused by partners in New York and treated like a goddess in Vegas. She hobnobs with Hollywood producers and hopes one day to make a movie about her experience. Which story is really the sad one?

By Observer on 2011 09 16, 12:05 pm CST

Scott.The American Constitution is based on the Holy Bible.The Holy Bible reads, “Judge not, so that thou shall not be judged”.From his comments, I believe that Scott is an elite.I will therefore suggest that it will be more meaningful for Scott to assist Carla in getting a better and more befitting job than to be judgemental.God will certainly bless him for it.
Sessi.

By SESSI AKOJENU on 2011 09 16, 12:21 pm CST

OR Lawyer, it is obvious that when you were admitted, they removed your sense of humour. the grossest thing I said was actually about me dancing topless as a short, morbidly obese male. As for the comments about divorce, where am I wrong? Half my wife’s male divorce clients end up w/ crushes on her (mostly for the wonderful job she does on their divorces). What would be wrong with having an attorney in an establishment that is legal? Is it any different than putting your criminal practice across the street or next to the police station?

kc: what is the offer for me to keep my shirt on <heheheh>

By Bob in CT on 2011 09 16, 12:48 pm CST

This article doesn’t surprise me in the least. Someone mentioned grad students dancing for dollars etc. What would of surprised me (& scared me) was if she worked as a party clown to pay off student loans!

By Bob in CT on 2011 09 16, 12:52 pm CST

A better story—and it would take a good investigative journalist to find it—would be about the law student, or unemployed graduate, or “underpaid” graduate, who is making ends meet through “victimless” crimes such as prostitution, drug sales, illegal gambling (the movie “Rounders”), insider trading or moonshining. Much more exciting than overbilling municipalities, churning a file (“we need more discovery here!”) or padding the time sheets—and not as immoral.

By HVB on 2011 09 16, 1:15 pm CST

#2, really. Would you consider it a happy ending if, with all your experience & education, you found yourself baring your private parts for money, having taken a job you describe as “an act of desperation”?

I do hope this woman is happy, but it is a shame she cannot use her mind and the education she worked so hard for so many years to achieve, to earn her living.

By icedgreentea on 2011 09 16, 2:21 pm CST

She’ll probably become a top rainmaker in a few years - watch out Scott, you may have to answer to her some day.

By MD on 2011 09 16, 2:22 pm CST

@19, 22

I do know of one attorney and professor who got his own chair endowed at a law school, after obtaining a very good result for a client.

By Tim on 2011 09 16, 3:01 pm CST

The sad reality is that she will likely have a difficult time ever going back into the legal profession, assuming the economy ever turns around. Obviously, the economic life of a topless dancer is about as limited as that of a NFL lineman. While I certainly admire her spunk, it’s a pretty sad state of affairs that this is the only job at which she can make a living. Small wonder law school enrollment is down.

By codger on 2011 09 16, 3:06 pm CST

Let’s hope the strip club doesn’t catch on to her former profession - as it might negatively reflect her “true character,” as Scott #8 put it.

By M on 2011 09 16, 3:07 pm CST

of course there’s always more to the story. Not to sound like I’m dumping on her, but consider this, from the limited facts we have:

She was in the “legal profession” for 10 years. As what? Based on the ABA’s perspective that means an associate/partner at Biglaw. Based on real world stats, that means starting at $60,000 somewhere. Based on the range of possibilities, that means anything from a legal assistant, Poverty Law volunteer/staffer, contract attorney, solo, “legal clinic” lawyer, insurance defense/subrogation, collections—up to highly successful M&A, Estate planning, litigation, etc.

If she left after 10 years at the high end of things, and if she were both skilled as a lawyer and adept as a business person, she would have skills and contacts that would cross over into many fields, at the professional level, in suide or outside the “legal profession.” instead, she went “into” being a cashier at a gas station.

So I suspect her career move was not a very long “fall from grace” unless she left her place in the “legal profession” under circumstances much worse than mere downsizing. Or she lives in a town where strippers are in more demand than office workers (Big Tuna, TX in “Wild at Heart”?)

By HVB on 2011 09 16, 3:58 pm CST

Lance: I recently learned that “happy ending” is a term of art in the massage parlor/strip club/lap dance community. Is this the happy endings you see for Carla? If so, I think this makes Paul’s happy ending of @2 somewhat less happy. Might even make practicing law a somewhat more palatable alternative.

By Just the facts, Ma'am on 2011 09 16, 5:00 pm CST

Scott - She is a lawyer!

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