A ‘Lost Year’ for 2Ls: About Half of BigLaw Jobs Are Gone

Tim
Aug 26, 2009 9:19 AM CST

Go do a year of law school abroad and become fluent in a second language and then come back for your 3rd year.  The economy will be better by then.

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Dagz
Aug 26, 2009 9:44 AM CST

I think #1 is still upset about his rejection letter from a certain Jesuit university law school.  :p

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James
Aug 26, 2009 10:21 AM CST

This just in… if you’re at the top 10% of your top ranked law school… you might have to look a little harder to find a job at biglaw.  Meanwhile if you graduated from a T3/4 diploma well… shouldna dun dat.

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Esq.
Aug 26, 2009 10:30 AM CST

Nope @ #4:  Went there, graduated, and have the loans to prove it.

@ #3:  The end is to take Fordham to task for their inflated placement numbers and reported graduate salaries.  I make these opinions known each and every time I am asked for a donation. 

If Fordham did not want any feedback on its decision to ban a firm from OCI for five years due to a late interview cancellation in a bad economy, it should not have put the story about Reed Smith in the news last week.

If it’s any consolation to the rising 2Ls who are seeing a shrinkage in Big Law jobs, many of those jobs never realistically existed for them in the first place.  They’re unwittingly part of the invisble remaining 80% of the profession that is not in the Big Law clubhouse.

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Frank
Aug 26, 2009 10:47 AM CST

meanwhile, the vast majority of lawyers, who come from tiers 2-4, have had a lost 2 years, seeing as how that is how long there has been a dramatic increase in the number of new lawyers, meaning that the number of jobs and paying clients far exceeds the number of lawyers needed. 

Why so many excess new lawyers? Well, the schools lied about how well their students did in the job market.

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christina
Aug 26, 2009 11:10 AM CST

#9- not sure where you live, but there ARE jobs out there.  I graduated from a T3 school, sent out ONE resume (paper, of course!), and got the job.  And why didn’t you defer your loans?  You can defer for three years with no penalty (at least with my lender you can), so you would just be starting your payments now.  I have a friend who took out massive student loans (more than you), so he went and got an LLM in Taxation so that he could get a higher paying job.  This is not an attack, I just think it’s shortsighted to let your anger from the past influence your career now.

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christina
Aug 26, 2009 11:19 AM CST

And by T3- I mean TIER 3, not top 3!  :)

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tort Deform
Aug 26, 2009 11:44 AM CST

#13 Nobody involved in litigation should vote Republican. Why the heck would a litigator, plaintiff or defense, vote to kill their job?

Place like Texas have been killed by ort reform republicans looking to immunize their big biz buddies from liability.

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abe
Aug 26, 2009 4:43 PM CST

The law school shills have made their customary public relations appearance online to assuage the fears of the lemmings, I see.

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B. McLeod
Aug 26, 2009 10:23 PM CST

I don’t know why anyone would “remove the comment.”  I mean, just because James is openly urging frivolous lawsuits for purposes of garnering media coverage, who could object to that?  Maybe in his jurisdiction, there is an undertaking in the attorney oath to disregard the normal obligations of officers of the court and advocate frivolous lawsuits whenever possible.  Maybe the plaintiffs will hire James to file these, since it is really his concept.

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Peter
Aug 28, 2009 6:07 AM CST

#15: The Army JAG Corps has been offering loan repayment bonuses for several years now.  I was able to get $25 K after 3 years for committing to 3 additional years.  Same option at 6.  Things have changed recently- now if you stay after 10 years they pay off your remaining loans.  The Army has a loan forgiveness program for all soldiers as well.  Last I heard it was $10,000 per year (taxable of course), but it may well be higher today.  Of course salaries are much lower than BigLaw, but when I got off active duty in 2006 as a major, I was making over 100K with all of my allowances and tax breaks.

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mac
Aug 28, 2009 7:11 AM CST

#12 - Chicago. One resume heh? Lucky for you. When I graduated, I spent 10 hours a day looking for a job and sending out resume. In 6 months of effort like that I got a whopping 3 interviews. And why would I defer, all that is going to do is push my payments out extra years. I don’t want to be paying my student loans in retirement. And I got an LLM in real estate law, but oh look what happened, the real estate market collapsed, lucky me, no jobs. The jobs that are out there pay $40k a year. I was making more than that before law school, so I don’t see the value.

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AndytheLawyer
Aug 28, 2009 7:34 AM CST

The American legal profession and public would be well-served if every law school in America just shut its doors for two or three years. There has been a huge oversupply of lawyers in the USA for a couple of decades.  the current economic climate did not create that reality—it just reinforced it.  If there aren’t jobs for new lawyers, then students who otherwise would have gone to law school should find something else to do with their lives.

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Study Abroad
Aug 28, 2009 8:09 AM CST

@2 Been there, done that, can practice law in that foreign country.  Still no jobs in the states because they “dont know how to classify you” in the job application piles. You are too experienced to be a regular graduate but don’t have enough experience to be a lateral transfer. Yikes!!

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SmalLaw
Aug 28, 2009 9:12 AM CST

I am so incredibly tired of seeing all these “BigLaw” stories.  It’s a large country, and there are many, many more firms, solos, and government lawyers out there in it besides the three and four firms based in the Northeast that somehow get written about EVERY WEEK. 

As Germlaw rightfully pointed out, there are many of us who purposefully avoided these firms because we could see the problems in the system and declined to become nothing more than an expendable billable widget producer.  I made this decision and, as a result, took a scholarship to a mid-T1 school instead of sinking into debt to go to a top 3.  Others made a different choice, and, while I’m sorry people have lost their jobs, I’m really tired of being told that I’m supposed to be shocked and saddened for them week after week.

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JME
Aug 28, 2009 9:41 AM CST

how many of you unemployed out there have checked with your state bar to find out if there are any recently deceased solos?  Soon to retire solos?  Did you talk with the Dean of your school (who knows a LOT more than your career counselor at the school!)?  Or are you afraid to go solo?

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Rath
Aug 28, 2009 10:52 AM CST

JME - I would say most law school graduates are afraid to go solo because they are ill equipped to do so by the law schools which gave them their degrees.  Aside from elective clinics and externships, law school offers no practical skills that a freshly minted lawyer can actually utilize to service clients upon graduation.

Law students may understand rules of criminal and civil procedure but most don’t have any experience drafting a complaint or the simplest of motions let alone how to navigate the bureacracy of the courthouse system.

Law students may understand corporation law but most have no experience in drafting a simple certificate of incorporation, or knowledge of the most basic issues in selection of the type and venue for a limited liability entity, or the existence.

It is almost equivalent to the blind leading the blind when law school graduates take up general practice on their own.  I have sat across the table on transactions with some of them who, even several years out, show the deficits in quality of legal service that come with the lack of training under more experienced lawyers in private practice.  Much of their work is evidence of negligence, and some of outright legal malpractice even if it is often not egregious enough to cause substantive harm to their clients.

The entire concept of the practice of law as it is currently taught in law schools needs to be reinvented.  The practice of law is an industry and a trade and it needs to be treated as such in restructuting law school curriculum to have a much heavier focus on mandatory practical training.

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energy atty.
Aug 28, 2009 11:15 AM CST

Stop complaining, find yourself a job with the fed. gov’t, take a bit of a pay cut (but still make enough to be comfortable; take advantage of the loan repayment program, and SPECIALIZE in a particular area of the law.

Far too may young attys emerge from law school having made no effort to specialize/make themselves an “expert” in a particular area of the law (read: NOT family law, or some other vague b.s. practice area). 

There are so many niche practices out there (maritime law, energy, import/export law, etc.), that make an atty practicing in such an area much more valuable.

It takes time find these areas, and and requires a bit of actual initiative while in law school to break free from the standard law school course track and to emerge yourself in an area of the law the will actually make you an asset in the long run.

Specialize, find a gov’t agency, etc. that oversees/regulates that area/industry; stick it out in gov’t for a few years (you won’t make as much as biglaw, but you’ll live comfortably, and with a much better lifestyle); after some time make the move to a firm.  Doing this allows you to bypass the traditional first/second/third year associate nonsense, and instead come into a firm being able to make a valuable contribution to a specific practice area.  You’re familiar with the internal working of the agency for which you worked, and you might actually be able to generate business due to you real experience (vs. first-yr. associate nonsense)

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DR
Aug 28, 2009 11:50 AM CST

I totally agree with #36 above, except that I think you can successfully do this in the private sector as well. 

When I went to law school, I had a specific area of law that I was interested in and did a lot of research during my second year of law school regarding the firms that limited their practice to my interest area.  I was hired as a summer associate at the first firm that I contacted.  It was a very small, but reputable firm in New York.  I joined the firm right out of law school.  The pay was half of what my BigLaw colleagues were making, but this small firm allowed me to make valuable contacts with many people in the profession.  I moved to a similar firm and that firm joined a BigLaw firm to form a practice group within that firm. 

Point being, I didn’t take the traditional path that many of my classmates did and I feel that I benefited greatly in the end.  I think it is important to have specific goals while in law school and to put on blinders to what others around you are saying (including your law school).

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Tex
Aug 28, 2009 1:23 PM CST

Einstein,
You are an Einstein.  Great advice!  I talk to so many young college graduates seeking advice about law school.  You are right on!

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Big G
Aug 28, 2009 2:13 PM CST

I wouldn’t call it a “lost year” because not getting a summer job with Big Law is not the end all. The ratio of 2Ls going to Big Law for a summer “job” is less than all of the other 2Ls that do something else. Big Law did not grace me with a cushy summer job so I went off and completed an intensive trial advocacy program at a top law school that was in conjunction with NITA. Four years out of law school and I’m now part of the corporate counsel team with a Fortune top 10 corporation and looking forward to returning the favor to Big Law..what comes around goes around.

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bugaboo
Aug 28, 2009 5:42 PM CST

#15 - If all else fails, there’s always the Soldiers and Sailors Relief Act!

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JS
Aug 28, 2009 9:28 PM CST

I am in total agreement with #34 and #36.  Law schools fail to provide a “practical legal education” and broad brush specialization cannot be understated (e.g., a Chapter 11 Bankruptcy specialist as opposed to a 503(b)(9) specialist).  The on-the-job training I receive at my firm is essential.  Had it not been for that, I would have many malpractice claims.

And to all you 2Ls, half the battle is luck.  I graduated from a close-knit undergraduate college and in to 10% at T4, but I got a job with a boutique as a result of (1) an interview I received (an accepted) for an unpaid internship through the drinking buddy (a junior partner) of an undergrad classmate and (2) my performance at the T4 school. The unpaid position eventually turned into a paid clerk position, which eventually turned into a real job. This gives credence to my theory that if you can hang out long enough, you will be offered a job.

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NN
Aug 29, 2009 2:42 PM CST

So why are law schools increasing their class sizes?  It just doesn’t make sense.

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Voice Of Reason
Aug 31, 2009 11:02 AM CST

So what if big law firms are not hiring?  Take a job at a smaller firm or work for the government.  I did both, and I have no regrets.  Both government jobs and small firms will give you much more hands-on experience than what you’d get at a megafirm.  Experience is what matters to clients in the long run.  My first job paid about $15K less than what big firms paid at the time.  I still managed to pay off my law school loans AND buy a house, though it took a little longer.  So, let go of your greed and arrogance.  Think of your first year in practice as an internship, which is what your employer will view it as.

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