As Traditional Legal Jobs Dry Up, Students Can Mold Unique Careers

Studentloaner
Sep 23, 2009 3:10 PM CST

“When you decide what type of lawyer you want to be, you will be more attractive to the employers at the kind of jobs you want.”

So now that you can’t get a job as an attorney you have more choices regarding the kind of work you want to do?  I think I get it.  If I work in fast food I will be more attractive to firms that represent fast food companies.

How much are students paying the career development people for this advice?

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PubliusEsq
Sep 23, 2009 5:10 PM CST

A law degree is a waste if you do not use it to lawyer.  The schools should be severly curtailing their enrollments to meet demand, not fraudulently inducing a continuous stream of new debt slaves to lead miserable lives.

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john
Sep 24, 2009 5:36 AM CST

Folks need to major in health related or engineering or building trades or accounting related majors as undergraduate degrees so if they cannot find legal jobs, they can always fall back to good paying jobs with their undergrad degrees. The law degree will just be a conversation piece at lunch time to talk to your fellow CPAs or engineer friends who will constantly ask you “what are you doing here with a law degree?” you will have to lie and say, I enjoy being a pencil pusher doing spread sheets when the real reason is to pay the bills and you cannot get a law job

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will litigate for food
Sep 24, 2009 10:28 AM CST

digging in dumpsters for aluminum cans is a unique career that many new lawyers are trying right now!

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PubliusEsq
Sep 24, 2009 10:58 PM CST

Of course, with an assist by the ABA, which does not seem to meet too many law schools it will not accredite.

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Donald
Sep 25, 2009 7:18 AM CST

This is a funny article.  In other words, the law schools have taken all of your money, placed you in debt, and there are no jobs, but what the hey!  Get a job doing something you didn’t need law school for in the first place and you’ll be happier in the end!

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EJ
Sep 25, 2009 7:49 AM CST

Anon #11 - buck up. I know life s*cks right now but if you really went to a solid school, did decently and passed the bar you’ll be fine. You’re a victim of the economy. The people with real problems are the people at the bottom of their classes and the people who go to schools that are little more than diploma mills. Most currently unemployed lawyers and recent grads will be fine in a year or two (eternity when you’re waiting tables with 150K debt, I know).

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J
Sep 25, 2009 8:05 AM CST

EJ #14 - You’re right, it’s going to be fine in a year or two, but unfortunately not for the vast majority of the people currently unemployed or graduating from law school. When the legal market picks back up and law firms start hiring again, they’re not going to reach their old staffing levels. I think many of the big firms have learned that it’s a ridiculous business model to hire a ton of green lawyers straight out of law school, pay them $160,000 to start and then turn around and charge clients an arm and a leg to recover that cost. There’s going to be pressure on firms for a long time to keep costs in check. This will be achieved by paying less to start, tying bonuses to merit, and being more “lean” (relatively speaking, since they’ll still be bloated). When firms do start hiring again, they’re not going to scoop all the unemployed lawyers back up. They’ll do so through their summer programs and/or by being extremely selective when hiring from the huge pool of experienced but unemployed attorneys out there. That means for many of us the best we can hope for is possibly a position at a small-mid size firm paying 1/3 to 1/2 what we used to make, which is a scary thought when considering the debt we’re carrying.

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Sonia G
Sep 25, 2009 8:11 AM CST

Nobody is entitled to a legal job, period, and if you needed a recession to teach you that, I doubt you have what it takes to make it in the legal practice in a first place. Education is an opportunity, not a guarantee of a cushy $100+K job even in good times. A law degree can be used in a myriad variety of careers and if you refuse to look at opportunities outside the well-worn traditional legal paths, well, keep digging for aluminum cans and complaining about how tough life is. Many people move between business and law their entire lives, practicing some years, working in non-legal capacity during others, consulting or teaching at other times. A variety of experiences only boosts one’s resume and opens doors to other opportunities. And in a crappy economy such as this, you have to either think outside the box or be buried in it. Quit being victims and start being proactive. Most poeple around the world do just fine with 1/100 of what we got.

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Tony
Sep 25, 2009 8:14 AM CST

What are and where are all these non-traditional jobs for those with law degrees?

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RC
Sep 25, 2009 8:58 AM CST

I am a 2L who occasionally worries about the economic climate I will face upon graduation, when the Government would like me to begin paying their money back.  This is helpful.  I Think I have it.
1.  Develop a preference because no one else has one.
2.  Scour facebook and twitter for any individual in any position with any company that might have an interest in helping me find a job.  I’m unsure at this time whether LinkedIn would be used or not.  It may be that LinkedIn is a professional media tool rather than social, but my guess is that it should be used too.
3.  Focus my facebooking, tweeting and blogging toward connecting with working professionals in a meaningful topical based legal discussion because all kinds of people are embracing social networking as a means to connect with law students.
Really?  What does assistant dean for career planning pay?  I may have found an interesting “alternative legal position.”

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Whatever
Sep 25, 2009 9:37 AM CST

“Silver Lining”

“Opportunity”

What a bunch of bologna.  Ms. Reuter needs a reality sandwich.

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mac
Sep 25, 2009 10:26 AM CST

Hooray, its not the legalacalypse, its an opportunity for you to try to make it on your own with absolutely no chance for you to do so!

I think bricklayer might be a better alternative legal job for me.

When everyone in the world is an attorney, will we still need attorneys?

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B
Sep 25, 2009 10:52 AM CST

I did not go to a very good law school but I went with a full LSAT scholarship so I have no debt. I have a part time legal aid job where I work with volunteer law students and unemployed new attorneys. It is okay for me because I have two little kids at home and like my paid part time work for legal aid. The bad thing is I feel like I cannot really tell the law students I work with how hard it is and how the JD they are working so hard for is of questionable value. At least I am helping poor people.

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B. McLeod
Sep 25, 2009 11:17 AM CST

Kilted soldiers wear no drawers,
Won’t you kindly lend them yours?
The poor should always help the poor,
God help the British Army!

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associate
Sep 25, 2009 1:04 PM CST

“As Traditional Legal Jobs Dry Up, Students Are Forced To Mold Unique Careers”

Fixed it for you.

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Bill
Sep 25, 2009 1:49 PM CST

Nowhere in this article, or the linked article, does it recognize the harsh reality that possessing a JD locks one out of the vast majority of non-legal jobs. In fact, one doesn’t need to spend much time on craigslist or careerbuilder to find even quasi-legal jobs that state “Absolutely no JDs will be considered.” The is the curse of the unemployable law grad -legal jobs have dried up, and everyone else thinks you’re overqualified. Nobody wants to hire a lawyer if they think they’re going to be unhappy, leave for a six-figure job offer in a month, or were incapable of passing the bar. Laypeople do not, and usually refuse to, fathom the fact that there are virtual no open law jobs existing now.

So what the helpful NYLS dean is really saying is, “We know our six-figure law degree is useless for finding a law job, but you can always create the same job that you could have always created before you wasted three years here.” Because there really aren’t any other options.

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Remainderman
Sep 25, 2009 4:11 PM CST

#23 - Is that you, John C.?

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Tseng KP
Sep 25, 2009 10:45 PM CST

#34 Perhaps you should expand your horizons beyond amateur BS websites like craigslist and career builder. I’ve been in the legal and non-legal workforce for two decades now and I only know of a handful of reputable US employers who even bother with these kinds of websites, let alone use them for serious recruitment. Forget international firms, to them these websites don’t even exist. Get a few company profile directories and see how many of their senior executives and directors have JDs. I work in Biotech, which you wouldn’t think is a natural field for attorneys, and guess what? There are a ton of lawyers who work in this field, and not all of them do IP/patent work. As for “nobody wants to hire a lawyer who expects big buckes…blah blah..” NOBODY wants to hire ANYBODY, a lawyer, an MBA, or a rocket scientist if they think that person has a sense of entitlement. The burden is on you to show that you’re not one of those people.

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Liz
Sep 27, 2009 10:58 AM CST

Yeah. When Bernie Madoff lost my life savings, I realized that no one “owes” me a non-ponzi scheme investment opportunity, and of course, following this train of thought, it’s obvious that the three years I spent in law school was just an opportunity to find a job that doesn’t require a law degree?

I think the bootstraps fans are begin a bit glib, and they’re missing two key points:

1) Law school qualifies you to do NOTHING.

2) Law school costs so much, even at state schools, that grads have to earn in the top 30% just to pay their loans.

People are upset because the salary figures are wildly inaccurate, and the degree dumps you on the world with nothing but a three year hole in your resume. Sure, a positive attitude is an important skill, but I don’t think it’s productive to excuse the law schools with “people should learn not to be scammed and just figure out how to fix their lives after being screwed over.” I think Madoff victims should move on too, but it isn’t anyone else’s place to lecture.

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Johnson
Sep 28, 2009 10:39 AM CST

@21 Tony, Have to reiterate the question “where are all these non-legal jobs for law graduates?”  Nobody, at any time, anywhere, or anyplace has ever adequately answered that question for me.

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MacTheKnife
Sep 28, 2009 2:33 PM CST

The ABA really needs to stop its complicity in the growth of the law school as profit mills and its complicity with BigLaw in manipulating the employment market to provide a cheap labor market for basic document review and production by contract attorneys.

The only way that is going to happen though is if the government steps in to impose drastic reforms on the ABA itself.  When you look at the backgrounds of the ABA officers, and delegates, it is comprised almost entirely of Big Law attorneys.  It is entirely conflicted therefore in imposing any meaningful reform on itself.  There is absolutely nothing legitimate about an organization populated and regulated by less than 20% of the attorney population, with interests that are largely in conflict with the overwhelming majority, claiming to represent the profession, or to have a legitimate right to police the profession in even the lose manner that the ABA does.

Here is what we need but which the current ABA will NEVER implement without government imposed reform to diversify representation in the ABA.

1,  Eliminate the J.D. matriculation requirement to practice law in the United States and reintroduce the LLB as an undergraduate degree will qualify one to sit for the bar.  There is no justification to require a J.D. to practice law.  This is clearly evidenced in the fact that area of study under a bachelor degree program has no meaningful impact on a candidate’s acceptance into a JD program, and the fact that undergraduate degrees have been shown as sufficient in almost every other Anglo common law country in the world.

2.  Require apprenticeship as a requirement to sit for the bar.  Almost every other Anglo common law jurisdiction in the world has it.  It ensures that the licensed attorney will actually have practical skills with which he or she can market themselves as a solo practitioner, or as an immediate asset to potential employers, which in turn may translate into a livable professional wage if coupled with the next requirement.

3.  Restrict law school admissions by requiring that the number of students admitted into law school correlate with and be limited by the number of law school graduates in each law school that is successfully placed in an apprenticeship.  Other Anglo common law jurisdictions such as Canada already do this, which has helped keep the supply and demand for lawyers in more realistic proportions to one another in such countries compared to insane situation in the United States.

4.  Implement higher minimal admission standards for ABA accredited law school programs.  Sorry, but if you cannot do better than a 3.0 and a 155 on your LSAT, you are not entitled to law school matriculation, you are not entitled to a career as a lawyer, and you’re more likely than not to end up with a career in which you are disappointed if you are allowed to pursue it with such low standards as evidenced by the plight of many unemployed or low wage employed attorneys in the United States today.

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Philosophical Lawyer
Sep 28, 2009 5:11 PM CST

All good ideas #44 MacTheKnife!

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M Thompson
Sep 28, 2009 6:33 PM CST

reply to John Comment #6 “the real reason is to pay the bills and you cannot get a law job”. Not always true, hon. I went to work in a non-trad because I love law but was disgusted by what I saw among legal professionals in practice. My law degree increases the value of my other marketable skills, and gives me an edge in competing for promotion. The training I received in law school improved my performance in the workplace. On the downside, when I looked to move out, employers were frightened away by my law background. They thought I’d be too costly, possibly too independent to manage, and would quickly leave them for a better offer ... all of which is a testament to the perceived value of a law degree outside of the legal profession.

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Quinn
Oct 2, 2009 7:55 PM CST

As a recent (and unemployed) graduate, I was treated like I had the plague when I went to my school’s career services office for some advice.  The counselors all avoided eye contact as they walked by me, perhaps worried that my joblessness would frighten impressionable young 2Ls and 3Ls forking over $40K a year for their law degree.  I came away with some generic information (the Internet as a tool for the job search!) and was quickly ushered out.  Thank you, law school.

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