Careers
Fake Ad for $30K NY Lawyer Job Gets Real Responses
Posted Jan 15, 2009 5:58 PM CST
By Martha Neil
Frustrated with the lack of good legal jobs, a New York contract attorney earning $60,000 a year posted an advertisement of his own on Craigslist.
A 2005 law school graduate, the unnamed 30-year-old intended the $30,000 job listing for an associate attorney working for a 20-lawyer firm in midtown Manhattan to be obviously satirical, recounts Above the Law: For one thing, the position—which calls for 12-hour days and a six-day work week—offers only three sick days and a week of vacation, which is "limited to the months of January and February, as we will need you to be in the office while the partners are taking their time off in the summer."
However, the ad, sadly, received a number of apparently serious responses, the legal blog reports. So the poster has now put an update on Craigslist, stating that the confidential materials he received from would-be applicants have been destroyed because the earlier ad wasn't for a real job.
"I thought it would be clear that it is a fake. Even if it wasn't fake, who in their right mind would apply to such a position that retains a second year med student in lieu of health insurance?" he writes in the update, referring to another "benefit" of the nonexistent job.
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Comments
B. McLeod
Jan 15, 2009 7:11 PM CST
This reflects the difficulty that newbies and castaways are having finding any placement. Chances are if the large firms told all their current “associates” that only 35% of current staff positions were being retained and that the firm would give precedence to “associates” who would stay for $30,000, some number of them would agree to do it. If a firm said $60,000 or $80,000, many more would agree to do it. If the firm simply announced the number to be retained and let “associates” compete by low bid, the partners would probably be surprised at the savings it would generate. The “associates” simply have no leverage and no position from which to bargain.
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nona
Jan 16, 2009 3:58 AM CST
I saw the ad on Craigslist while I was looking for jobs and responded to it to tell him how right-on he was. I could tell it was a joke BECAUSE I’d seen so many ads that offer some low salary but expected years of work experience as well as all the submissions—AND 3-4 references and a writing sample. The reason I knew the other ads weren’t jokes were those employers aren’t the slightest big apologetic or honest about how crazy their ads are. Those ads also are almost never willing to give a recent graduate a chance. Even if you don’t read this ad carefully, the tone is so different from real ads in the beginning (before the obvious jokes start) that you should be suspicious.
To be honest, yeah, I’d respond to an ad that offered $30000, no health insurance and indicated they’d hire a recent graduate. This is how bad so many of us need jobs. The $60000 this guy is making honestly sounds very good to me right now—it’s way better than nothing. Most people I know who graduated from law school are in way less debt than I am (I borrowed nearly all my law school expenses and half my college expenses), so most shouldn’t talk about $60000 as if that necessitates getting a better job. He’s lucky to have what he does.
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Dr/JD
Jan 16, 2009 6:59 AM CST
This is why you all should have gone to medical school. Even nurses can make over 100,000 a year because they are in such high demand.
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Bill
Jan 16, 2009 7:53 AM CST
Who wants to be around sick people all day. They’re disgusting. 30k is better than 0k
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DP
Jan 16, 2009 8:57 AM CST
Sure, this may reflect the difficulty that young lawyers are having right now finding jobs, but more than that, I think the response of the shocked observers of all this reflects the unfortunate sense of righteous entitlement that people seem to feel. Just because we have JDs doesn’t mean we’re automatically entitled to $145,000 base salaries, 4 weeks of vacation and corporate limo service.
There are people who have worked their tails off just to be able to afford law school, possibly against the odds of backgrounds of subpar inner city school educations, poverty, family difficulties, etc. For some people, the having a $30,000 a year job in an office (even in Manhattan) is a godsend and a step toward a better life.
That people would be so shocked that some would reply to this ad, especially in such hard times, says more about the observers than it does about those who responded with a willingness to work long, hard hours for “substandard” pay.
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Experienced Attorney
Jan 16, 2009 9:03 AM CST
Plenty of experience attorneys work at close to that rate. I am an experienced attorney who works at a private firm and there have been years when I earned $30,000. $45,000 is typical and of course, I have no benefits. My crime, no clients. I should have gone inhouse/government years ago. and yes, I was one of those inner city students who thought it was a miracle to go to law school. I did not realize that connections not being a good lawyer is what counts.
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worth it
Jan 16, 2009 10:04 AM CST
U can make that as store manager at McDonalds. No lawyer should ever be paid under 50 grand.
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SA
Jan 16, 2009 10:21 AM CST
Most of us who have endured the rigors of law school are not afraid of hard work. The hourly wage for that position (advertised requiring 72 hours per week) is about $8 per hour. Considering the amount and expense of education required of attorneys and the hours required of that bogus position, pay at or near that level is exploitive. It is an insult for attorneys to defend it and attack those (like me) who find it shocking.
No one is insisting all attorneys must earn 145K and perks such as a limo service, however a living wage sufficient to pay back law school loans AND eat seems fair.
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Jeremy
Jan 16, 2009 10:25 AM CST
12 hrs * 6 days = 72 hour weeks. 72 hours * 51 weeks (remember the generous vacation time)= 3,672 hours.
$30,000 / 3,672 hrs = $8.17/hr.
Isn’t NY’s minimum wage higher than that?
Most people could flip burgers or park cars or wait tables for $8.17/hr.
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Experienced Attorney
Jan 16, 2009 10:57 AM CST
Many experienced attorneys might be better off at McDonalds or as receptionists at bigger firms, but how do you change your resume? No one will hire for one of those jobs with a law degree on your resume. I have thought of making believe that I have not worked for the last 20 years but I doubt that I would get hired either. Not to mention age discrimination. The bottom line is that there are too many lawyers and that law school and the bar association don’t really teach you how to obtain clients. I would try to switch areas of law into a more consumer oriented practice instead of corporate clients. I assume consumers are more likely to hire a 50+, fat, hispanic female than a corporate firm or government agency, but I am afraid to give up my current job and try. It still brings in enough for food and am only taking money out of my savings for rent and medical. I would hate to have no food either. New York minimum wage is $7.15 and most general labor jobs are off the books.
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B. McLeod
Jan 16, 2009 12:07 PM CST
The premise of our economic system is that (except as expressly limited by minimum wage or living wage enactments), employers are free to offer exploitive pay whenever the market makes that viable. That would include the present time. Employers are not responsible for paying the loans “associates” took out to go to law school, or for offering pay on a basis that allows for it. When the legal services market is like this, lawyers (like everyone else) have to suck it up and take what is available, or hang the shingle and make their own way.
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Mark Perrott
Jan 16, 2009 1:38 PM CST
Decide what is most important and do what is necessary to succeed. If being a practicing attorney is most important to you, then take what jobs are offerred and do whatever is required to succeed. No one is responsible for your success but you. If however, using the knowledge that was obtained while pursuing a JD is more important to you, there are large numbers of opportunities outside of the practice of law that the legal education is of great value. In fact, the knowledge and thought processes the legal education provided you will be an advantage in almost any other career. Bottom line: No one owes you a living or a career - you have to earn it and build it yourself.
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Jr.
Jan 16, 2009 3:28 PM CST
We are a small firm that has tons of work and we have been looking for tax and transactional lawyers with 5 years experience and we can’t find qualified people. There are good paying jobs still out there to be found for those who don’t want to work in major cities.
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Skadden Farts
Jan 29, 2009 8:22 AM CST
JD= Joke Degree. Law school is like shovelling money into a furnace.
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