Legal Ethics
Fordham Bans Reed Smith for 5 Years, Cites Late Interview Cancellation
Posted Aug 12, 2009 12:55 PM CST
By Martha Neil
Updated: Citing a "lack of professionalism" in Reed Smith's late cancellation of scheduled on-campus interviews this year, the dean of Fordham University School of Law has banned the Pittsburgh-based international law firm from further participation for the next five years.
The firm expects to have a 2010 summer associate program, but it is canceling on-campus interviews at some schools, including Fordham, states a letter to students today from Dean William Michael Treanor. It is reprinted in an Above the Law post, and a law school spokeswoman has confirmed to the ABA Journal that the letter is accurate.
"At Fordham Law, we require our students to conduct themselves with the utmost professionalism, and we expect employers to demonstrate the same high standards," the letter concludes.
In a written statement provided to the ABA Journal, the law firm's director of United States recruiting points out that Reed Smith has maintained its summer program even as a number of other well-known law firms have canceled theirs, and describes the firm's decision not to recruit on campus at Fordham right now as "a carefully considered business decision" based on projections of the law firm's incoming business and employment needs.
Because the firm expects to bring in fewer summer associates, it is conducting on-campus interviews at fewer schools, explains recruiting director Dana Levin. Even when it doesn't interview on-campus, Reed Smith will conduct in-office interviews, "where appropriate," from law schools the firm doesn't visit.
"When we made our decision about on-campus recruiting, we immediately and directly communicated it to Fordham. Reed Smith has more than 20 Fordham graduates in our lawyer ranks, all of them valuable members of our team," Levin continues.
"We hope Dean Treanor will reconsider his decision in light of the marketplace realities our industry is facing, and we look forward to continuing our long and successful relationship with Fordham."
Additional coverage:
Legal Intelligencer: "Fordham Bans Reed Smith"
Updated at 4:45 p.m. to include information from Reed Smith and on Aug. 13 to link to Legal Intelligencer article.
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Comments
B. McLeod
Aug 12, 2009 1:05 PM CST
Take that, Reed Smith!! Because of the late cancellation of interviews this year, Fordham will not let you schedule on-campus interviews for the next five years! That will show who’s who. Fordham (apparently) doesn’t care if its graduates get a shot at your nasty old six-figure starting salaries anyway. Yes, unless you come crawling back with an apology and a promise not to do it again, you can just forget adding any Fordham gards to the stable for the next five years. So there!
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Horace
Aug 12, 2009 1:40 PM CST
That will just leave more second-tier, second-rate law graduates for other firms to struggle with.
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B. McLeod
Aug 12, 2009 2:21 PM CST
But wait, Tier 1 now includes the top 100, so Fordham (ranked 30) is actually Tier 1. Now Reed Smith will have to scrap to cover its needs from the other top 100 schools, since it can’t interview at Fordham.
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Solomon
Aug 12, 2009 2:23 PM CST
However shall Reed Smith get along for the next five years?
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Rath
Aug 12, 2009 2:44 PM CST
B. McLeod,
Your sarcasm is sadly misplaced in this situation. Perhaps you forget how OCI interviewing works on most campuses, or perhaps your age is showing and they never had an OCI program when you were in law school, but Reed Smith’s lack of professional conduct in this manner was egregious. Each student is only allowed to choose a limited number of slots for on campus interviews. By pulling out at the eleventh hour, Reed Smith needlessly caused some students to reduce their employment prospects through the OCI program by roughly 20-25% in an already depleted market. This kind of unprofessional conduct has been growing out of control during the current economy because law schools thus far have been reluctant to make a stand on principles and I applaud Dean Treanor’s actions in taking a stand against this kind of behavior.
In the long run, Fordham stands to gain much more in terms of standing and respect then it will from losing a half a dozen or so associate openings over the next five years at an elite pretender law firm such as Reed Smith. The firm may have been held in high regard at one time by top law schools and former peer firms, but it has been on a steady downward decline in terms of reputation over the past several years, diluting its ranks with more and more tier 2 and 3 law school graduates over the past several years. It is a living testament to the concept that bigger is not better, not for its clients, and certainly not for its associates. Once the economy recovers within the 5 year ban Reed Smith will find itself, once again, in the position of being the red headed step child of top law schools. In addition, Fordham law school students can continue to apply for summer associate positions with Reed Smith directly. Being blackballed from a Tier 1 law school’s OCI, particularly one in New York City, is a public image loss for Reed Smith and a public image win for Fordham.
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MacTheKnife
Aug 12, 2009 2:52 PM CST
Comment removed by moderator.
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Esq.
Aug 12, 2009 2:57 PM CST
I am a Fordham graduate. Who does Fordham think it’s kidding????
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anonymous
Aug 12, 2009 3:13 PM CST
Why don’t the law schools cut it out with the fraudulent career stats and advertising before they climb up on their ethical high horses?
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Esq.
Aug 12, 2009 3:19 PM CST
I forgot to add…. when I attended, there were plenty of firms that sent preemptive rejection letters to the entire 2L class prior to OCI. These firms were still welcomed on campus with open arms. There were several firms that engaged in blatantly discriminatory hiring practices, like asking interviewees if they ‘kept kosher’ during OCI interviews. They too were welcomed back with open arms. And there were ALWAYS firms that were no-shows during OCI.
@ #5: When I was at Fordham, each student got to pick 34 firms to request OCI interviews with. The law review kids would land all 34, most students in the top third at least 10. I doubt losing one firm on someone’s list would have a significant impact.
Not to mention that many of the firms send the least knowledgeable associates to simply go through the motions of conducting interviews and collecting resumes. Thus, if there’s an outside application process, the candidates are no worse off than they would have been with an on-campus interview.
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LawFirmsRule
Aug 12, 2009 4:22 PM CST
Dumb move—hurts students only, no one else.
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Jackcats cal
Aug 12, 2009 4:39 PM CST
I’m a Fordham Law graduate. I’m also an alumnus of a firm that merged with Reed Smith some years ago. Fordham’s Dean Treanor has made the right call—if you make a commitment, meet the commitment.
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James
Aug 12, 2009 7:25 PM CST
In the short term it will hurt Fordham students, but the publicity from this will hurt Reed Smith, far more in the long run.
Fordham might also benefit in the long run.
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Attorney
Aug 13, 2009 6:25 AM CST
How will the publicity hurt Reed Smith in a time when law students are begging for jobs and willing to work as bus boys in the law firm kitchen or latte center? It was a arrogant decision made the Dean. A five year ban, are you kidding in this market? I would have taken a different approach and worked with the firm behind the scenes to make this right.
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B. McLeod
Aug 13, 2009 7:16 AM CST
Rath, it is not so much my being old as my being of Scottish descent. Fordham has (in my opinion) simply mistaken who holds the relative, economic power in this situation, and its action is foolish.
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Esq.
Aug 13, 2009 10:25 AM CST
I apologize if I start resembling B. McLeod in my zeal for this post, but would the school rather have Reed Smith come on campus and simply go through the motions of conducting the interviews, since Fordham students are clearly not a priority for them?
What if firms decided to boycott Fordham, instead of their current practice of hiring a Fordham student every third year in a good economy?
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just being pratical
Aug 13, 2009 10:33 AM CST
I suppose the alternative could have been that reed Smith interviewed at Fordham and then didn’t make any offers. Not that it was nice to pull out at the last minute, but in the end the students are harmed in the same way. So the fact that they weren’t forced to prepare for a meaningless interview, the firm just let the school know that it has no intention to hire anyone from Fordham.
I’m sorry for all current law students worrying about to the future. It is no picnic. I wish you all well.
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RS Alumnus
Aug 13, 2009 11:32 AM CST
Esq. are you being facetious or are you just ignorant about Fordham Law School? Fordham Law School graduates are hired by top NYC law firms every year. It’s a tier 1 school with a strong placement record for the NYC area.
Reed Smith has a high attrition rate for a reason. It’s the perfect firm to single out for this kind of action since it will be hiring few NYassociates in the next 5 years anyway unless the economy turns around, in which case it will be relegated to recruiting much of its class from Tier 2 and Tier 3 law schools again.
As others have mentioned OCI interviews aren’t even necessary to secure an interview or job offer with Reed Smith. There’s no real harm to Fordham Law School students and it’s not a matter of who holds the relative, economic power in this situation. It’s about principles and professional courtesy and all Fordham did was shine a spotlight on a firm which clearly is deficient in that regard (in more ways than this I might add).
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LS
Aug 13, 2009 11:52 AM CST
Rath, I agree - almost unequivocably. And I think suggesting that a ‘fake’ OCI would be an alternative misses the point. Completely. Unless Reed Smith’s numbers tanked unexpectedly, only within the last weeks, I do not see an excuse for cancelling this late in the game. Not only is it unprofessional and evidence of poor/no planning, but it also does not match the standards to which students are held during the recruiting process.
I commend Fordham for taking a stand, even if it has no impact, and would like to see more schools make efforts to retain their dignity in a down market - instead of kissing the shoes of employers who just walked all over the schools.
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James
Aug 13, 2009 7:12 PM CST
But see, Fordham’s actions do have an impact. Is Reed Smith going to suffer financially because of this, no, of course not, but the fact that the story got out means that thousands of law students, law professors, practicing attorneys and potential clients will read it. Reed Smith’s action was unprofessional no matter what angle you look at it. Maybe certain individuals who Reed Smith would like to do business with will see this article and have second thoughts. Maybe some of those decision makers who Reed Smith courts are Fordham alumni. Just a thought.
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Fordham Grad
Aug 14, 2009 2:51 AM CST
Personally, I would have fined them. Wait.
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Lost in...
Aug 14, 2009 3:02 AM CST
Why do all attorneys have to say “X and Y?” To wit: “When we made our decision about on-campus recruiting, we immediately and directly communicated it to Fordham.”
I mean, when I talk to my wife now I say things like “my love for you is complete and consuming” or “what you said was hostile and intimidating.”
Anyways, I thought Fordham’s actions were questionable and lacked congruency… err something like that.
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Another Fordham Law Grad
Aug 14, 2009 5:37 AM CST
Dean Treanor’s action is an example of his loyalty to the current body of law students. The students didn’t deserve to be treated with disrespect by a recruiting law firm. The school is fortunate to have a compassionate and pro-active leader - another reason why FL Rocks!
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Cellman49
Aug 14, 2009 5:55 AM CST
Fordham is arrogant! It should be thinking of its students first; not its bruised ego.
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tjw
Aug 14, 2009 6:13 AM CST
It’s the real world - deal with it and quit crying. In 100 years is anyone going to care ? No? - then its not important.
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Jimathart
Aug 14, 2009 8:07 AM CST
All of this merits a good yawn. TJW hit the nail on the head. Stop bellyaching and go hit he pavement and look for a job.
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BrianL
Aug 14, 2009 8:20 AM CST
And this punishes whom? The injured parties are the current year students who had an interview slot. The prohibition impacts Fordham students of the next 5 years who will have more limited access to the firm for available positions. The punishment impacts the future year students and not Fordham. I humbly suggest that they have more applicants than slots every year and will just fill them form the other schools. If the ABA could influence the other schools to also prohibit participation of Frodham, then maybe it would have made some sense but, the future year students still are involved negatively in the punishment.
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large weasel
Aug 14, 2009 8:45 AM CST
How else can a law school tell a bunch of snobs that thier practices bite! Fordham will survive , Who knows maybe Reed will ban Fordham students for 10. C’mon guys having a nickle short of G-D doesn’t entitle you to be a weenie.Play nice, both you!
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joe
Aug 14, 2009 9:23 AM CST
Poor RS. How will they make it without all those graduates from Fordham? You mean Fordham, the most over rated law school in NYC? Yes, I mean that school. If I was RS, I would never recruit from Fordham again, and start recruiting from other lower ranked schools in NYC, as a double hit to Fordham. Lower thier “over rated” hype, and boost competitors like Brooklyn, Cordozo, and NYLS.
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Competitor
Aug 14, 2009 9:48 AM CST
What an arrogant ploy by Fordham. If the dean found himself with enrollment down 30%, wouldn’t he cancel expensive programs, too? The legal world is changing in a 1000 ways and on-campus interviewing is just one of many, many casualties. I hope Fordham’s Career Services office is more sensible than its Dean.
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melissa
Aug 14, 2009 9:56 AM CST
Boys and girls - Get real - both sides of the debate - your hubris sounds like GM car guys 25 years ago talking like there was no end to your self-importance ! With the nonlawyer “consulting” practices taking over the nonlitigation side of law practice - face it - and with litigation being way down -see the Almanac of the Federal Judiciary for example - and the insurance defense shops and their little spinoffs grabbing so much market share, AND law schools sprouting like mushrooms ( the seventh or eighth [!!!?] here in the heart of the Rust Belt , a 70’s or 80’s free-standing startup is now up to at least FOUR different cities in the same state those of us from institutional firms or in spinoffs/breakaways are largely - not everyone but most - toast in the next 5-10 years. Sorry. But it’s true. We are tomorrow’s dentists. The specialist physicians are next. With or without changes in our health care system being debated right now, the fact remains that “Med schools” are popping up everywhere - THREE State schools in this State with negative population growth are seeking accreditation - to turn out more Family Practitioners ! We have to be realistic :the business models of the Higher Ed biz, and the accounting/consulting practices, have decimated the legal profession, not just on price/compensation factors, but in terms of basic DEMAND. Like one of our assistants here said recently,” Why should I pay for an optometrist visit when I can go to an optician at ‘Walmarts’ for practically nothing ?” ( I don’t even think she’s heard of an opthalmologist) We have been so busy as an industry with navel gazing, hiring “consultants”, and bitching about our “underperforming ” partners and associates (often long-time friends) ( with this sanctimonious moralistic “mercy killing” attitude to make it worse !), and unauthorized practice of law not as aggressively pursued as should have been, our industry is a dinosaur. There will be something left when it’s all over but it will as with dinosaurs most likely be a nimble little bird.
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KeatingHall
Aug 14, 2009 10:09 AM CST
Hail! men of Fordham, hail! on to the fray!
Once more our foes assail in strong array.
Once more the old Maroon, waves on high
We’ll sing our battle song.
We do or die.
With a Ram, a Ram, a Ram for victory
With a Ram, a Ram, a Ram for loyalty.
To the fight, to fight,
To win our laurels bright!
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Kalifornia Arnold
Aug 14, 2009 10:59 AM CST
Looks like Fordham is spinning their wheels if they think their ban will have any effect. Looks like they should shift gears on this one.
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Vince Lombardi
Aug 14, 2009 1:33 PM CST
Fordham reprises the Seven Blockheads of Granite.
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Fordham JD/MBA
Aug 14, 2009 2:30 PM CST
sounds like Joe (#28) didn’t get into Fordham…
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RS Alumnus
Aug 17, 2009 1:40 PM CST
@34 My thoughts exactly. The irony is that RS does hire associates from the law schools Joe mentioned. Most of the Fordham graduates came over from Anderson Kill last year. That’s reflective of RS’s inability to recruit top talent from Tier 1 law schools, at least for its NYC office. When a law firm like RS hires Tier 2 and Tier 3 graduates instead of Tier 1 graduates, that’s a hit on the law firm’s reputation not Tier 1 law schools.
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Ron
Aug 18, 2009 3:14 PM CST
Fordham has a law school?
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larry
Aug 21, 2009 7:15 AM CST
never heard of Fordham - is that like a Cooley?
4th tier school?
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Rath
Aug 21, 2009 12:41 PM CST
36 and 37 are you alt troll accounts for Joe the bitter Fordham Law School reject or are you just ignorant? Fordham is a Tier 1 law school. Are you even lawyers?
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