‘Hot Attorney’ Website is Iced

associate
Jul 8, 2008 1:57 PM CST

So how many of you have now googled Abby Sacunas, and is Cozen O’Connor’s site still up?

Just an observation, but her commenting on this probably made the issue more notable than just letting it pass by.

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Ellen Barshevsky
Jul 11, 2008 4:07 AM CST

UGH! It is important that this sex-based blog/website/whatever not be glorified. And you guys are wrong.  Women don’t need a website to tell them if they are HOT.  These women have accomplished more than 98% of other women, by virtue of their law degrees and bar memberships. They need NOT be objectivized for their good looks by sleazy men (# 2 and 3 above are so typical).  I don’t personally know any of these women, but they should be applauded for their legal skills.  What type of MEN have time to put together a website of HOT women associates?  It is a shame that he doesn’t spend his time on productive legal work.  I think he should take note of the legal accomplishements of all women lawyers and leave the pictures behind.  These women, unfortunately, will now just be thought of as meat, and that’s TOTALLY WRONG.  These attorneys should be viewed as women; not for being physically attractive, but for being able to get their in such a sexist envirnonment and do their jobs with these disgusting men leering at them.  We ARE J.D.‘s AND members of the bar, and that means we have met legal old farts license to leer at us, grope us or anything else.  We wan to practice law.  Please think of us as lawyers, that’s what we are.  Thank you.

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lawstudent
Jul 11, 2008 5:41 AM CST

I wanted to address Scott’s comment. 

I think he is absolutely correct that litigation should be used as a tool to defend our civil liberties instead of chilling people from participating in perfectly legal behavior, however offensive we may find find that behavior to be.

Nonetheless, if the operators of this blog were using photographs of these attorney’s in a way which they were not legally permitted to, there was probably a legitimate threat of a lawsuit.  There clearly isn’t anything wrong with filing a lawsuit for legitimate reasons even though you may also have ulterior motives for doing so.

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Gatsby
Jul 11, 2008 5:56 AM CST

Wait? Abby’s supposed to be hot? She looks like a muppit. Sorry, but she does. I’m glad they shut down the site…it’s inaccurate.

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esquiress
Jul 11, 2008 6:39 AM CST

I just want to address Scott’s comment also:

Are you an attorney?  No where in the article did I read that the government ordered the website to be removed…seems like the do*cheb*gs who put it up decided to take it down by their own accord, or were so ordered by their superiors.  Even if the web hosting company removed it without the owners’ consent, this STILL wouldn’t be a Constitutional issue.  Honestly. 

I don’t see government involvement anywhere here (or even any statutory violations), and that therefore, leaves it outside the scope of any debate about free speech or the Constitutional rights of do*cheb*gs.  You sound like either a 1L who isn’t going to make it to 2L, or a college undergrad who took one pre-law class and thinks he knows what he’s talking about.

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I'm not really here
Jul 11, 2008 7:02 AM CST

At least the judicial hottie page is still up.  If I weren’t male and straight, I could fall in love with Alex Kozinski. http://underneaththeirrobes.blogs.com/main/2004/06/courthouse_foru.html

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jpg594
Jul 11, 2008 7:13 AM CST

Oh yeah, and get the f back to work.

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Dan
Jul 11, 2008 7:33 AM CST

I think it’s a sad reflection on our profession, one that’s *supposed* to be filled with rational, intelligent people, that many of the posters here are condoning sexism and objectification of our colleagues.
I realize that for most of you, it’s your insecurity expressing itself. You look around law schools and realize that the majority of students are female, that many of the brightest students are female, and that because you can’t compete with them as an equal, intellectually, you’ll instead try to take them down a peg by treating them as a piece of eye candy instead of a person.
Frankly, if you’re this terrified of dealing with intelligent people on their level, you’re probably in the wrong field.

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chuck
Jul 11, 2008 7:41 AM CST

Gatsby post #8, you’re way off base - she doesn’t look at all like a muppit.  She’s totally hot.  I agree with JFK, this website needs to be analyzed.

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KSM
Jul 11, 2008 7:51 AM CST

I think Dan has it all wrong.  Lawyers are human beings.  Men generally ogle women.  Women do the same, but usually with far greater tact (i.e. they make greater use of mirrors and other reflective surfaces - a hint my girlfriend actually passed along).  Therefore, nobody should be shocked that websites like the one above have existed or will continue to exist.  Quite honestly, women need to get over themselves.  Law school is NOT the real world, and there is not a vast conspiracy to keep women oppressed.  This is the 00s, not the 60s, and women are welcome and appreciated in the workplace.  Do men still check them out - OF COURSE.  Because that is what ALL men do.  I’m sure the opposite is true, but women tend to be far more discrete about it.  I just think that’s the way we’re programmed.  If the ladies above are so shocked and saddened by this basic life fact, then I recommend they band together and start a predominantly female law firm.  Part time schedules and maternity leave for everyone.  Enjoy!

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Jarrod
Jul 11, 2008 7:59 AM CST

Ellen like many guys who have read these comments I can understand your concern for the comments being made. Unfortunately it is impossible to overlook some clear, but perfectly natural, biases you have. The 98% comment I know is in regard to a University study done about three years ago on “what are the most difficult professions to get into”, so that I can understand. However being smart, nay ... being successful does not earn us lawyers (male or female), some new right to privacy. On the other hand, like Mr Brad Pitt who’s name you and I both carelessly throw about (though he may not want it), success means that our privacy will pushed to its limits.
What I will agree with you in saying, surely we can find better things to do with our time, than invade the privacy of our colleagues.  But Ellen, I find your justification for why women in the law should be treated differently, not as a fight against sexism, but an expression of elitism. If you want to fight for the rights of women not to be objectified…. Fight for all women not just the 2% to which you belong.

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Dude Attorney
Jul 11, 2008 8:52 AM CST

Everyone against this site needs to lighten up.  The same women who are offended by their inclusion in this site are sometimes the same ones that use their looks, bodies whatever in cases/situations that they have.  If you don’t think “Hotties” use their attractive assets in negotiations, client promotion and trials, your mislead.  It is human nature to put your best foot forward and give the perception of excellence.  I have witnessed women in all facets of business use their looks to be successful and there’s nothing wrong with that.  People want to work with, associate with and deal with attractive successful people, whether right or wrong, that’s how it goes.  Turn on the tube tonight and check any TV show, not a lot of troll women appearing there.

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Muppet
Jul 11, 2008 9:07 AM CST

Did Jarrod really use “nay” in a sentence? Verily Jerrod harken ye back to Subway! Godspeed!
Hate to be the judge reading your pleadings and motions.

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Andy the Lawyer
Jul 11, 2008 9:33 AM CST

Ms. Barshevsky’s comments (#4) suggest that she perceives her self as a lawyer and only a lawyer, and not also as a woman—and that’s how she wants others to perceive her. 

That’s too bad.  People like her, of either gender, tend to have very lonely and limited lives, followed by burnout and regret.

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Aging and Not so Thrilled
Jul 11, 2008 10:03 AM CST

If some kind soul would post a 40+ hottie list and place me on it, I would be delighted and probably add it to my firm resume.  Kidding aside, it’s pleasant to be objectified when you’re established and have clients but not so much when you’re young and trying to make a reputation for yourself (preferably one as good lawyer, not a hottie), and so I get where these young women are coming from.

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jdp
Jul 11, 2008 10:30 AM CST

All of the complaints seem to flow from the assumption that a woman can’t be BOTH smart AND hot, that if you are one you can’t be the other.  Celebrating one doesn’t mean disrespecting, disregarding, or denying the other.

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mfargis
Jul 11, 2008 10:39 AM CST

We all know that obtaining a JD and passing one or more Bar exams are no guarantee of maturity, good character, diligence or even native intelligence.  Having said this, it is my experience that “hot” young female attorneys work very hard to prove that they are good lawyers and their looks are irrelevant.  And if I have to watch someone work hard, it might as well be someone easy to look at.

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lom
Jul 11, 2008 10:50 AM CST

One thing that bothers me about American culture is that we are so caught up on having the “right” (and the forum) to behave in almost any way we please, that the controlling norms in our culture are those of poor taste and disregard for the person hood and dignity of other people.

Yeah, sure, it’s neither illegal nor unconstitutional to be demeaning, vulgar, and rude in most venues and senses, but that doesn’t mean that as a culture we should so freely flaunt and exercise those expressions of our freedom….

it truly saddens me that just as a culture, there are so many of us that choose to act in poor taste and be so exploitative of the dignity of others. 

The point that sexual urges are natural is well taken…however, exploiting those urges and feelings at the expense of others in such a public way is just gross and senseless. 

Guess what guys, women often have urges to put up websites with your photos and sexual stats (length, girth, methods, technique, timing), and law firm…I’m sure most of you though, are glad that we generally don’t make a practice of it.

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Dan
Jul 11, 2008 11:26 AM CST

jdp, as pointed out by #37, you can find cached copies of the site online, and no, they don’t list honors, GPAs, or other awards. Just current firm and prior law school. So, would you like to respond to my substantive point, or just back out quietly?

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jdp
Jul 11, 2008 1:27 PM CST

Dan, why would I back away quietly when you keep making my point?  The website doesn’t say anything about GPA, honors or awards.  It is utterly silent on that point.  Are you still arguing that because they DO make reference to physical appearance, they MUST be disparaging the mental capabilities of these women?  (Which is, of course, my point—your assumption that recognizing one inherently implies that the other is lacking.)
Or are “hotness” and capability so strongly linked that they must always be mentioned together?  You don’t see awards and honors on the “hot fireman” calendars, either… should we assume that these guys are unqualified as firemen? 
Or are you suggesting that “hotness” depends on GPA?  I guess it is subjective…

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MJ
Jul 11, 2008 1:39 PM CST

I agree with #18…she’s pretty HOT!!!  I want to be her client.

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jdp
Jul 11, 2008 2:11 PM CST

If I understand argument correctly, referring to a woman in terms of attractiveness without listing her academic achievements is an insult?  It is just not possible to assume that an attractive woman also has intellectual capacity?  That if proof of academic qualifications are not attached, the only reasonable assumption is that she doesn’t have any?  Or is there some other way to get to arguing that discussing only attractiveness brings the person’s intellectual capacity into disregard?
Just for fun, turn it around and argue it the other way.  If we talk solely about someone’s intellectual capacities, are we insulting their appearance?

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Female Attorney
Jul 11, 2008 2:47 PM CST

jdp, the problem is that women are objectified sexually in a way that men aren’t.  Do you really think that a website called Brilliant Women Attorneys would have gotten a lot of hits?

Remember, women in this day and age still earn less than a man for the same work and it isn’t because they aren’t just as hard-working, intelligent, and capable.

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Andy the Lawyer
Jul 11, 2008 3:02 PM CST

Most of the women lawyers I’ve known over the years—successful or otherwise—don’t have to worry much about appearing on “hottie” lists after several years of practice—that is, unless there’s a cadre of website creators out there turned on by women in dark suits with HIllary Clinton-style backsides from endless 14-16 hour days in their desk chairs.

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Commenter
Jul 11, 2008 3:17 PM CST

Why are these women getting all bent out of shape?  Just because men identify certain women as hot or sexy does not “objectify” them, it simply identifies a pleasurable observable characteristic.  You funny little muffins need to take a deep breath and chill out.

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