Work/Life Balance
In Online Forum, Lawyer Tells of Sacrificing Personal Life for Work
Posted Apr 14, 2009 6:32 AM CST
By Debra Cassens Weiss
A 43-year-old lawyer writing in an online forum tells of her regrets about sacrificing her personal life for work.
The lawyer says when she was in college and law school in the late 1980s and early 1990s, discussions about work-life balance “would have caused big problems on the work front--the ‘guys’ would have jumped on that as an admission that the women weren't as dedicated and somehow too ‘weak’ for the profession." In a Washington Post online forum, the lawyer tells work-life expert and consultant Kathy Korman Frey that she isn’t the only woman of her generation with such regrets.
“By the time I figured out that I could and should have demanded more control, I had spent most of my 20s and 30s in the office for 12- to 14-hour days, six to seven days a week—never having the time to date, much less get married and have kids. Now that I figured it out, it's too late. I'm not alone in this amongst women of my age. I'm glad younger women are getting guidance and seem to be pushing back on this.”
Korman sympathizes with the lawyer and calls her story "incredibly powerful." She writes of three secrets of those who are best able to balance work and home responsibilities. These people:
1) Are clear about their priorities and have stopped being “yes people.”
2) Are confident about what success means to them.
3) Have a competitive advantage because they have figured out how to make themselves better and different from their co-workers.
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Comments
B. McLeod
Apr 14, 2009 7:59 AM CST
I wonder if she had, as a child, a sled named “Rosebud.”
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CBANITAP
Apr 14, 2009 8:10 AM CST
It’s not just the lawyers who sacrafice. I left my young boys as a single parent to work ‘round the clock at a law firm just to be able to take care of my children. I missed a lot of their lives, especially since my youngest was murdered at 20…I lost much sacraficing for firms that have not returned much to me and my family.
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kennyg
Apr 14, 2009 9:51 AM CST
Its not too late at all.
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attorney
Apr 14, 2009 12:56 PM CST
This women wanted to work these types of hours and chose to work these types of hours. I don’t think the firm manager had a gun to head forcing her to work 6-7days a week for two decades. I am sure her biological and fertility clock is ticking or stopped. You took one for the cause, Women Libbers, and she-attorneys trying to be and become the male-attorneys and male-partners they hate. Congrats!
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Stone
Apr 14, 2009 12:57 PM CST
Good for her that she finally figured it out. Too bad she didn’t sooner, but at least this lady took ownership of this and didn’t blame anyone else for it.
Life is a cost/benefit analysis, sometimes we make bad judgments. In the end, no one really cares except that person.
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LMAO
Apr 14, 2009 6:29 PM CST
attorney,
“Women Libbers”? What are you, 105 years old? Step away from the internet before you hurt yourself, Methuselah.
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Debra Veoli
Apr 15, 2009 6:13 AM CST
Excuse me but WHAT is so unusual about this woman? ALL women make this same decision, and we all must live with our decisions.
I got a job in BIGLAW, and I knew that it would effect my ability to have a child. I can’t really work 12+ hours every day, plus weekends, and still have a personal life and a child.
Well, I still have some time, and if I DONT keep my job, I will have a BABY.
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Someone At Work
Apr 17, 2009 4:21 AM CST
Is this woman under the impression that men don’t give up their personal lives to the same machine? I work 80+ hours a week, and see the kids I had before I went to law school a lot less than I should. I suppose that because I’m male that’s to be expected, though? That suggestion is nakedly sexist.
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love monkey
Apr 17, 2009 5:00 AM CST
Comment removed by moderator.
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Marc
Apr 17, 2009 6:16 AM CST
Nice to see that anti-semites read the ABA Journal too. What’s his firm—Hitler, Goebbels, and Himmler, LLP?
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Alphonse Credenza
Apr 17, 2009 6:39 AM CST
The child should always take precedence. How can anyone make the decision for put in 12 hour days/7 days a week and have a child as well? Stay childless if the work is that much more important to you. Women AND men.
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woman who works a lot
Apr 17, 2009 6:42 AM CST
Women work crazy hours, men work crazy hours, and when priorities change everyone can look back with regrets. However, I work now because I want to be competitive and successful professionally and I think this is a good thing; granted, I have no interest in having children, and men haven’t provided me with all that much satisfaction thus far. If I change my mind later, so be it…
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Abner Stanwick
Apr 17, 2009 7:16 AM CST
I don’t know what her point is? She had to be conscious of all this while she was working all those hours. Now she is complaining as if someone pulled the rug out from under. By her own admission her ego drove her to prove she was “dedicated” and “not weak”. Well, she did it. Congrats.
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Philly Lawyer
Apr 17, 2009 7:36 AM CST
Many women in the profession face this concern every day. There’s so much bias among the management level attorneys about women attorneys who have children—whether or not they have a reduced schedule or elected to continue working the crazy hours and leaving the kids with the nanny. In our firm, the last time a woman with children was promoted to partner was 15 years ago. When it was chic to show how “diverse” a firm’s partnership was. Now the firms have Diversity Committees and Women in the Profession groups—but are actually sliding backward when it comes to treatment of actual people.
So, she has a point and it’s a true shame that women are forced to make these choices (and still not be advanced within the practice) while men have their stay-at-home wives and make partner on a routine schedule.
Many women have chosen to forgo children while trying to be successful in this rat race. Yet, they still get hit with all of the negative stereotypes and are rewarded less than their male counterparts. It’s just sickening.
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reality check
Apr 17, 2009 7:38 AM CST
It’s a personal choice and this applies to both genders. The problem is that women are sold the “you can have it all” false statement without clarifying that NOT ALL AT ONCE. You can have different things at different times in life, but not all at once. Again, it’s all up to what you choose. I got tired of all those women that made partner trying to sell me and other female young associates the you can have it all attitude, that today’s technology allows you to do that, blah, blah, blah, to then reveal at the end of their sermon that their husbands were stay at home dads or that their mothers took care of their children and could stay late or be there on weekends with no prior warning, or that they had 3 nannies constantly and on call, etc. I have yet to find (after being at 2 BigLaw firms and one mid-size) a female partner that had a reasonable work-life balance through out life (and by reasonable, I mean without all those special circumstances mentioned above) and was happy. Every single female partner I encountered had issues: either were childless and unhappy because of that, or with children but bitter they missed out on their lives, or divorced later in life, etc. After short 6 years in practice, I’ve learned my options and I’ve chosen what is a reasonable work-life balance for me since I’ve realized that there is always time to work more later in life, but that you are fertile to have children only a few short years, and that children need you to be around a lot only for so many years. After all, how long is a law career in comparison to the 10-15 years a child needs you the most? Also, I am at peace with my decision because I’ve noticed that many women have not suffered in their careers because they have slowed down for a few years while their children were small. THERE ARE (contrary to what the machine wants you to believe) other paths to achieve success, even if success for you only means making partner. It’s not a straight 8-10 years path. I feel sad for this woman. She doesn’t seem to have made the right choice for herself and sorry to say, IT MIGHT BE TOO LATE, at least to have her own children, which is what she seems to regret more. Best of luck to her to turn around her life, even if for the last stages…
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C
Apr 17, 2009 7:48 AM CST
Hmmm. Yeah, life does involve a lot of sacrificing. And I guess in some kind of crazy cosmic scheme we are all victims of our own ignorance. But maybe you should be spilling this to your well paid psychologist (who you can now easily afford I might add) who can prescribe you some meds, instead of burdening us with your sob sorry. Some of us who remain out of work would gladly heave you under the metaphorical bus to have your $200K job. Take a vacation, read “All Quiet on the Western Front” and suck it up.
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C
Apr 17, 2009 7:51 AM CST
I meant Psychiatrist of course. More coffee!
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Meg
Apr 17, 2009 7:52 AM CST
Yes, both men and women make difficult choices, but one difference is that for a man in his mid-forties it’s not “too late.” At the firm where I work there are many male partners who waited until their careers were well established before having kids. But often when a woman waits to hit certain milestones in her career before starting a family she finds that it is too late.
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woman who works a lot
Apr 17, 2009 7:59 AM CST
I agree that women are put in a more difficult position, forced to make difficult decisions regarding children, faced with negative stereotypes, and systematically rewarded less than male counterparts. However, it is my opinion that women have an obligation to be realistic regarding the pragmatic implications of their choice to have children. Women certainly perpetuate these same stereotypes through their failure to take responsibility for the choices they make….
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mmozden
Apr 17, 2009 8:00 AM CST
The only thing it is probably too late for this atty to do is to conceive naturally. I married at 44, adopted 3 kids, work in county government as a public defender and mostly work 40-45 hrs a week. Granted I make less than a 1st yr associate at many private firms, but you have to sacrifice something if you’re trying to achieve a balance between personal and professional life, male or female.
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D
Apr 17, 2009 8:10 AM CST
The extreme views posted are unnecessary. If one manages their time, both personally and professionally, you can manage a career and motherhood. Each us of needs to make the choices as to how that mix of career and children works for them.
I’ve worked full-time since graduating law school in 1988 and have raised three pretty well adjusted boys - now 19, 15 and 13. My oldest is off to college and my other two see me for several hours each evening. I’m very strict about my work schedule - in at 8, out at 5:30. I don’t miss their soccer games or school functions. I leave early at least once a week to take them to practice. I handle all of the appointments - ortho, doctor, etc. I’ve managed to build my own book of business and become a shareholder in my firm (about 300 lawyers). What’s the catch? I’ve worked hard ensuring my time is spent wisely; I’ve worked many hours into the night after my boys went to bed; I’ve sacraficed the “me” time that so many of my friends can’t seem to do without; I’ve taught my boys that they have to use their brains, think independently and do for themselves sometimes - not in a bad way - but in a way that someday their future wifes will thank me for (e.g. they turn 13 they handle their own laundry)! Is it hard - absolutely. I remain married to my childhood sweethart (24 years).
Do I get frustrated - absolutely. Does life get out of sync - of course, this isn’t Neverland. This is reality. No woman should be criticized for her career choices - whether it be to step out of the workplace, cut back or stay in full force. Each of us handles things in our own way. Why are women so judgmental of one another? We should be supporting and encouraging one another in the individual choices we make - and if we have some regrets, a little sympathy goes a long way - someday it might be you with regrets.
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SH
Apr 17, 2009 8:11 AM CST
Instead of vying to see whether men or women are the biggest martyrs here, it seems the question for each of us should be: If I feel I have sold out my life for my job, what am I going to do about it? The “I’m rich, but I’m not really happy” argument doesn’t engender much sympathy. If you are not willing to move out of your 5 BR house in the gated community (fill in your own blank) for more work/life balance, then you have made your choice and must live with it.
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H Blix
Apr 17, 2009 8:12 AM CST
>>I have no interest in having children, and men haven’t provided me with all that much satisfaction thus far. If I change my mind later, so be it.
The future belongs to those who show up for it. Why are you working so hard if you’ll just be passing it on to strangers or the govt?
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JG
Apr 17, 2009 8:27 AM CST
For all the men saying this is just as hard for them - there are two issues to consider. Did you/would have to take off the time to actually bear the child and how that would affect partnership, etc.? Remember she talks about starting in the 1990s. Other consideration is the impact having a big pregnant belly while in court or dealing with clients.
Should those things matter? No. But they do play a role. You should also consider whether you had a partner/mother of the children willing to stay at home and take care of them while you were working crazy hours or at least with a job that was flexible. Not everyone has that situation, and it is MUCH more likely that a wife/mother makes that sacrifice than the father/husband.
Many fathers do make the sacrifice to work and not see their kids as much. Currently, the sacrifices are more equal. But you are being willfully ignorant if you think there isn’t sexism in the profession regarding how men and women make these choices. If a man leaves in time to catch soccer practice or take the kid to a med. appointment he is more likely (not always, but more likely) to be applauded for being a good parent. If a woman does this, she’s more likely to be viewed as improperly putting her family over her job and not taking work seriously enough.
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woman who works a lot
Apr 17, 2009 8:36 AM CST
Well, “passing it on to strangers” isn’t exactly how I view my pursuit of professional success. Frankly, I am sick of the stereotype that my life has no meaning if I don’t have a husband or child to go home to. I value freedom, independence, friends, community, and yes, even strangers. My life can certainly serve an important and valuable role in society leaving behind a legacy not as a mother, but as a role model to others who share my passion to be great at what I do…I also did say I was open to changing my mind, I’m just not holding my breath for some prince charming when I am capable of living a full and satisfying life, which is by no means devoid of love, happiness, or whatever it is people seem to think I’m missing out on.
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Kevin Chern
Apr 17, 2009 9:15 AM CST
I’m an attorney who suffered through the same challenges, building a small practice into a big one and letting my personal life suffer as a result. You can have success as a lawyer without sacrificing your personal life. Especially in this day and age, technology allows you to streamline processes and outsource non-essential administrative tasks that don’t need to be done by a lawyer. If a lawyer really wants to make a difference in his/her life, though, he must WANT to make that change.
Some folks are satisfied doing things the same old way and are so fulfilled by their work, that other things are not so important. But wanting to have personal fulfillment does not always have to be connected to having a child or spouse to go home to. Alternatively, and just as importantly, finding hobbies, friends or other things you enjoy outside of work can be personally fulfilling and drastically reduce your stress level while at work. I’d encourage you to check out www.TotalPMA.org. I have put together a conference May 27-28 that speaks directly to work-life balance issues and how to address those challenges through better law practice management.
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reality check
Apr 17, 2009 9:19 AM CST
#21 - D: Are you sure you are not omitting to “reveal” something? You almost got me there…but just for a nano second. I am not being judgmental, believe me, I just haven’t seen what you are describing. As much as I would like to buy the picture you are painting, this is what I see wrong with it:
1. You have annulled yourself as a human being. You are just a lawyer and a mom (and I am not the type to need time for shopping, pedicures, or to gossip with my friends, but just the minimum things of life to feel I am a person as well as a mom and a professional like time to read the newspaper, exercise and speak to family on the phone!). You have no time for anything else and some day you’ll see that it does take away from you, at least, from your health and sanity…but I fully agree, it’s your choice and I am not criticizing your career choice, just pointing things out.
2. What does Mr. High School sweetheart do? BTW, may be the catch too is that you were able to remain married for so long because you don’t have anytime left for him and consequently, you guys don’t even have time to have a conflict…I also have forgone a lot of myself and I have a very supportive husband who works a full time job and shares all the household chores, and child rearing, but still, finding time left for ourselves is a daily struggle and as much as a reason for leaving Biglaw (BTW, 300 lawyers is not even the mid-size firm I was talking about) as any other (kids, etc.).
3. You may have limited your “office hours” but since you work late at night and probably on weekends,contrary to what you may have made yourself believe, you have not limited your “work schedule.”
If I am completely off mark here, you are almost the exception I’ve looked for in the last 5+ years! You are probably wonder woman as well. Congrats to you and I sincerely wish you not to ever have any regrets, but do ask you instead, to be mindful of not accidentally be fooling young female lawyers.
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solo lawyer
Apr 17, 2009 9:36 AM CST
it’s not too late - I know a woman who had a child in her early 40s—unusual but possible. Please follow your goals.
Work is a cost-benefit analysis - I left a low-paying public interest job to go out on my own. Ask yourself how much personal time is worth to you. I always swore I would never go into a big firm, and got my law degree as a non-traditional student with 3 kids at home, one in preschool. Obviously I will never be on the fast-track—you just have to figure out what is best for you and allocate time accordingly. I spent a lot less time studying than my classmates and was at the bottom of the top half of my class, but I think the time with the kids was worth it, even though many career options are now foreclosed to me (and probably would have been foreclosed anyway because I attended a low-ranked regional law school). in lieu of dealing with a not-so-great academic job market that would have required splitting up the family.
As a boomer who absorbed the counterculture in her teens, the rejection of money and status (by whose values?) was not that difficult. People should do what they want and not think of how others judge them in terms of money and status.
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Ruth A. Rowlette
Apr 17, 2009 10:12 AM CST
It is definately not too late to start a family at age 43. Adopted number one when I was 45, adopted number two at age 50, have a very successful tax and bankruptcy law practice, kids came to the office when they were very small and I am very clear with clients that my evenings and weekends are for the family. No cell phone number is ever given out and rarely do I have to work weekends. It can most definately be done.
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George
Apr 17, 2009 10:23 AM CST
It’s about priorities. People get what they want most. What this lawyer really regrets is not working so hard for many years, but rather a recognition that she failed to put the most important things in life first, or that she simply failed to realize what the most important things in life are. This is not the profession’s fault for working her too hard, but rather her own fault for failing to prioritize and focus on what she really wanted. Once cannot “have it all.” There are trade-offs in everything.
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Chris
Apr 17, 2009 10:40 AM CST
It’s not hard to see why this happens. Big law encourages you to work 2 jobs for twice the amount of pay. No mystery there. Now if we created an environment were one could work 1 job with normal hours for a smaller paycheck attorneys could have the work-life balance.
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Lawyer Mom
Apr 17, 2009 10:54 AM CST
I too was in law school in the early nineties, made the law review and law review editor. But I always knew that I wanted and needed to have a close family too. Fifteen years later I have three great kids and the same great husband (we got married when I was in law school). He works some long hours as a corporate exec and so do I, but we make ball games, concerts, and dinner together almost every night as a family. I haven’t made a fortune as a lawyer but I do well. And I still love being a lawyer more than most I meet and am proud of my life. It doesn’t have to be one extreme or the other. My advice to young lawyers, both women AND men…choose to work with attorneys who demonstrate your values AND have successful firms. They (we) are here.
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Steve
Apr 17, 2009 11:05 AM CST
At age 57, I’ve seen quite a bit. Whether Big Law or “Small” Law, female or male, young or old, our profession is so demanding, you can be on a treadmill and not know it until too late, much like the proverbial “frog in the pot on the stove”. And with the economy now tanking, jumping off that treadmil has potentialy more negative consequences, as well as positive opportunities. Today, I look back and feel some “What for?”. l’m thankful I still have some time to conclude “A whole lot”. It would be nice if the retirement plan is still there when I reach that realization. Blessings to all.
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Boraxo
Apr 17, 2009 11:12 AM CST
Post nos 15 and 30 have it right. Women are falsely lead to believe that “you can have it all.” You can’t. Choices have to be made. We all make them. Sorry if you have regrets, you’re not the only one. Hopefully your story serves as an example for others not to make the same choices that they may later regret.
Most of the good women lawyers I know have taken government jobs so that they can have sufficient family time. The ones at large firms are gnerally single or divorced. Of course there are expections, but probably 1 in 100 who make partner and raise a family. And without exception they are sacrificing family time, delegating child rearing, and have support systems that are not avail to most (see post 15).
As post 31 points out, there does not seem to be happy medium at biglaw where you can work 40 hours for half the pay. It continues to amaze me that intellegent young associates have not unionized their firms. But I guess most are too scared or greedy.
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D
Apr 17, 2009 11:46 AM CST
reality check - I certainly didn’t mean to paint an entirely rosy picture - but wanted folks to know that you can have a successful career, build your book AND have a family. There are sacrifices all the way around. Because of my choices - I elect to make the primary area of sacrifice the “me” time I referenced. I’ll get it back - already am getting some of that back as my kids get older and their social lives take priority over mom and dad. My husband works full time - but thankfully both of us flexibility in our schedule so that we can be there when the kids need us to. He is a tremendous contrubutor to the household stuff and the boys - but I am definitely the “director” - so I feel that the majority of the burden still falls to me.
Because we spend the evenings with the boys we do spend good quality time with each other - and have had our fair share of conflict - doesn’t take much time for conflict!
In no way am I wonder woman - I’ve made plenty of mistakes. But, I acknowledge those mistakes, apologize when I’m wrong and adjust to avoid the same mistakes in the future.
My choice to progress through my career full time was driven by many factors- including finances. There were many years where the choice to do something less didn’t exist.
I have not anulled myself as a human being - I’m a great mom, a great wife and a great lawyer. That’s pretty amazing. My time to relax in the sun will come - I look forward to it but will never regret the ME time I’ve sacrificed for my kids - or my career - and yes, they both define me.
The point I was trying to make is that with planning, flexibility and a lot of hard work- you can have a career and a healthy family life. I’ve accepted that if the woman or man in the office next to me elects to work more hours, he or she may be compensated at a higher level and may have been promoted faster - that’s fair. I totally disagree and fight against the stereotypes, the presumptions and the discrimination that women face in this profession - but I accept the people are rewarded differently for different contrbutions. Same contribution - same reward.
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Catherine
Apr 17, 2009 11:57 AM CST
The theme in many of these comments is that women, in particular the woman in this article, have to “suck it up”, prioritize, and make choices. The issue is the inherent inequality among men and women: biologically, men do not have to make the choice between establishing their career and having children. The point I think this woman was trying to make is that while there may be accommodations for women seeking to have a family today (through employment practices and just changing social mores), they simply weren’t there 20 years ago, and the choice for women was even more cut and dry: career or family—not both. I don’t see this article as reflecting the woman’s disappointment with her failure to make the proper choice for herself, but simply lamenting that she, as a woman at that time, had to make the choice and men did not. A man in her shoes right now can still have a family, but absent extraordinary circumstances she cannot.
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Still trying to have it all
Apr 17, 2009 12:22 PM CST
The secret to ‘having it all’ in my opinion is two fold: (1) being clear about what you want—and what you are willing to sacrifice to get it—and (2) being discplined about executing against your honest priorities. I’ve started practicing litigation at Big Law at age 25; had to leave nine months after Child #1 (age 30) due to travel demands of both my job and my spouse’s job and lack of backup support network for raising child when ‘Parenting Plan A’ didn’t work. We relocated much closer to home and I practiced and made partner at Midsize Law for three years during the new mom zombie phase (e.g., todder phase and Child #2 at age 32.) LIke D, I also prioritized evenings with kids, but spent lots of late nights with the laptop after kids went to sleep to keep up with client demands (and still do). I’m now in-house working at Big Corporate in a small town. I have time to have a fulfilling career and time to raise my kids. I have a big network of family, neighbors, kids’ friends parents, etc. that help with the logistics of kids activities and I use technology to keep up with it all. Is it easy? No. Is it exhausting sometimes? Yes. Do I make sacrifices to hit my priorities? Absolutely. Incidentally, I tried part-time litigation work at both BigLaw and Mid-Size Law and found that I when I was primarily responsible for a case, the only thing that was getting cut back was my pay, as I was not content to be relegated to ‘helper’ status that only worked during set hours but wasn’t calling the shots. Also, as a self-acknowledged perfectionist control-freak, the best sacrifice I made was allowing my spouse more hand in the child-rearing department—even though he doesn’t do things my way. The kids are more balanced for having his substantial involvement, I’m more relaxed about the little details of life that really don’t matter if they’re not perfect, and my spouse is more of a partner than a parenting helper because he’s had to step up to the plate when I travel for work and the “who’s going to stay home when the kid(s) are sick” duty is much more balanced.
So, bottom line, focus on what you want your life to look like and keep evaluating what’s not working and make changes as necessary. I feel like I’m close to having it all because I’m willing to eliminate the roadblocks and just keep at it. Good luck to all.
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John T. Barrett
Apr 17, 2009 1:10 PM CST
At least in view of the remarks quoted above, I think that the lady is getting a lot of unwarranted criiticsm. I don’t see the criticism of others. I see, instead, regret and a well justified warning. I think her remarks are well worth the consideration of both genders.
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Lawyer Mom
Apr 17, 2009 1:13 PM CST
I fully agree with D (#21 and 35) and #37. If the author had worked with a few women like them as a young lawyer she may well have had a different life. As a young lawyer at a big firm in the early 1990’s my mentor was a female lawyer who married late in life and never had children. But she was smart enought to tell me very early on that I could and should have it all: a challenging and rewarding career and a loving family. She has since passed away but I think she would be proud of me and of women lawyers like D and Still trying to have it all.
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Kate
Apr 17, 2009 1:21 PM CST
You can have work-life balance as a woman, but it probably won’t include partner at BigLaw. As a male attorney pointed out earlier, male partners at BigLaw don’t exactly have work-life balance either.
I graduated at the top of my class and was offered a few BigLaw positions but ultimately decided I didn’t want to sacrifice my “me” time or my marriage. So, I opened my own practice doing estate planning and small business start-ups. I work out of my house most of the time, and my husband telecommutes so we are together nearly 24 hours per day, and we love it. Of course there is the occasional conflict, but I am lucky that I married my soulmate - he’s the only person I’ve ever met that I never get tired of.
We haven’t gotten the urge to have children (I’m 34) but if we do and I’m older, we’d be happy to adopt. We definitely have the time for children if we wanted them, though. We would probably have to sacrifice most of our travel - but that’s about it.
What it really boils down to, is money vs. time. I don’t make as much money as I would at BigLaw, but who cares? I’m tremendously happy and feel overwhelmingly blessed.
I completely agree with #35, yes women are often discriminated against, but I also accept that some of the discrepancy in pay is driven by differing levels of contribution. Both men and women have the option to say no to being overworked, they just have to be willing to accept less pay.
I chose time, love, home, hobbies, and travel, over uber-wealth, but I am in no way poor. We own a nice, normal-sized house, two nice cars, take 4-5 weeks of luxury vacations every year, save 20% towards retirement, and have no debt other than a mortgage. Oh, and did I mention I’m HAPPY?!
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reality check
Apr 17, 2009 3:38 PM CST
#21 and 35. D: your statement “but wanted folks to know that you can have a successful career, build your book AND have a family.” sounds JUST what I was talking about in my original post #15. As #34 pointed out, you may be one of the 1 in 100 or more like 5,000 exception and all I wanted folks to know is that it’s not the norm. Also, you may have it “all”, but it all comes down to the quality of each of those components (i.e., family and career, ME time). You confirmed my point, one will always suffer to give room to the others and which one does, is all about priorities. And #39, best of luck in trying to have it all, just don’t be too proud to recognize that it is not possible when you don’t make it and before you become bitter because of it.
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PAM in FL
Apr 17, 2009 4:32 PM CST
It was worse for us who graduated from law school in the 70’s and the women coming out of law school today have us who sacrificed and fought for equal opportunity to thank for the fact that they now have FMLA protection and maternity leave. When I graduated in 1979 as one of 12 women in a class of 76, I couldn’t get a job in my home town at all except as a legal secretary and then a 6 month stint at Legal Services until Reagan caused their funding to be cut. When I finally did get a full time job as a lawyer, I had a lot of ground to make up for and no money. When I got pregnant at the end of law school by a fellow student who also had no money and a developing drinking issue, I knew I could not afford a child and did not want to waste the education my parents sacrificed to pay for. I had an abortion. When I got pregnant again at 30, I was just getting settled into a good, but low paying government law position. Not only was I very aware that I had to work full time just to support myself (didn’t own a home, drove a $4000 car), I did not want to have a baby just to consign it to daycare 5 long days a week. How selfish is that? I also suffered from 24 hr a day morning sickness and could barely pick my head up off my desk. I had another abortion. Yet I did meet someone and live with him for 10 years, but as he was divorced already with 2 kids and a responsible vesectomy, I had no children. I dated after him, but I was 40 and did not want to marry someone who I might have to support, too. Now I am 53, married for the first time at 50, too old to have any children of my own. I thought I was being responsible. I still believe it. Men almost ALWAYS have a woman involved with the care of their offspring whether they are married to her or not. Men need not miss work due to morning sickness or obstetrical appts. Unmarried women who need to work cannot count on assistance at all. I didn’t sacrifice in order to have a wonderful career in the law. I worked to survive. What I highly resent now, though, are pregnant women in my office who go around to their co-workers asking them to donate some of their vacation time to them so they can spend more time at home with their newborns. I feel that they too have made their choice (to breed) and they know how much time they have to devote to it. I have no child to show for my years of labor, but I have earned plenty of vacation time and there is no way I am giving it to anyone. How dare they!
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Still working
Apr 17, 2009 4:41 PM CST
(1) It is unfortunate that many of the comments have turned this into a gender issue. I do not see anywhere in the article where the woman said that men should be expected to work long hours, but not women. She only references a gender divide by implying that “guys” would have used decreased hours against her. The same “guys” probably would have used decreased hours against any male as well. Work-life balance choices and opportunities are not gender specific.
(2) Recent studies have shown that men also have a biological clock. Specifically, as men age they increase the risk of having children that develop schezophrenia and children born to men over the age of 40 on average have lower IQs and the average IQs continue to decline as the age of the father increases.
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prosecute1966
Apr 17, 2009 8:13 PM CST
Like many posts on other subjects here, there is a little truth in everybody’s statements. I think there is still some disparity between the sexes in Big Law firm advancement, but I recall asking a professor, in a seminar discussing gender and the law, how can be reconciled. If a man joins a law firm and works diligently for 8-10 years straight, how do you compare him, for purposes of bestowing partnership, with an equally talented and diligent woman who took time off to have children? I never got any real answer. As more and more women earn access to the corner offices/partnerships, I think many recognize the sacrifice that comes with the perquisites that men have enjoyed. A lot of men have become partners in firms of all sizes but really do not know their children—their spouse essentially raised the kid alone. Making baseball games and recitals is nice, but their is so much more to GOOD parenting that requires presence—one has to been at home, dealing with day to day b.s. to parent well. If one is working 60-80 hours a week at ANY job, one can’t be there for the moments that call for a parent.
My sister and I are both attorneys, and she work at a large lawfirm before graduated from law school, and I recognized then that it wasn’t the life for me. My entire career has been in the halls of county and municipal law divisions. I don’t make six figures, but then I never have to work more than 45 -50 hours a week and practically no weekends. I sometimes wonder what I might have missed financially and sometimes envy the complexity of work that I see my peers working with in very busy law firms, but when I’m driving home from work at 5:45 or 6:00 and my kids are still awake when I get home, so we see each other, that wonder and envy quickly dissipate. My wife sees me on the weekends, and I don’t have to see the inside of my office until Monday morning. There are countless federal, state, and local governments that pay a good salary and offer challenging work with a sane family life to go along, but choices have to be made by men and women—especially women. Yes, it IS different for you—you have to make these decisions quicker than men because nature made you the incubator of our species and your childbearing years are limited. You have to choose until such time as science and technology cancels out that little immutable law of nature. Choose wisely because there are no do-overs.
Men, don’t think that because you make partner more easily and without stops to give birth that you still don’t pay a heavy price. That son or daughter that doesn’t really feel any sense of closeness to you and doesn’t feel all that compelled to prioritize visits with your grandkids isn’t going to revert to toddlerhood now that you’ve been a partner. You cannot get back what you should’ve created when they were toddlers—and you will be sadder for it.
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Rafael St. Germain
Apr 17, 2009 10:55 PM CST
I am a former attroney in my forties. One day I realized that life was passing me by and all MY life had cenered around 80 hours + weekends in the office and courthouse. So, much to my colleagues surprise, I gave one months notice and moved to a developing country where I teach english for less than 10% my US salary. Once in a while, I give a lecture at the local law school regarding American Law. Is this the right choice? For ME it was, though probably not for most attorneys. Not everyone would find what I do rewarding especially after the sacrifices made to obtain our degree. My point? Find out what YOU want in life, not what is EXPECTED by OTHERS. Then DO it! Simple? Not on your life! Worth it? YES!
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Lisa
Apr 19, 2009 7:57 AM CST
Happiness has alot to do with perspective. I always knew I wanted to marry and have a large family. I went to law school so that I could afford this dream and have financial independance in case hubby turned out to be a rat. (He didn’t.) I graduated from law school in 1990, married in 1991, first baby in 1992, second baby 1995, while working full time. This worked out well but I knew I couldn’t keep it up and expand the family. So, I went part-time. This allowed me to have three more babies before I turned 36. Now I am planning to go back to work full time in a few years (when the youngest is 10). I’ll have twenty or more full time years and lots of grandchildren in my future. I don’t have any regrets. I hope this biography helps young women lawyers in their decision making.
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my56thchoice
Apr 20, 2009 1:22 AM CST
There is no such thing as “having it all”. This is one of the saddest lessons we all must learn about life as a grownup. Most of us learn too late that in life there are only hard choices. In this regard most of us have only three options: (1) We can indulge our hobbies and genuine interests as well as perhaps the pursuit of a quaility family and social life. This generally involves living modestly on very little money; (2) We can become totally obsessed with success in our chosen and very competitive field (or any other very competitive field). This generally comes at the expense of genuine outside hobbies or interests, as well as a decent family and social life (apart from networking required to build a career). The work almost inevitably requires long tedious hours and a good living is never assured but without obsessive hard work few people stand a chance at achieving financial security before they die; (3) The third option is to resort to crime in an attempt to earn a substantial amount of money without making substantial sacrafices. Of course the price of this third option (which is not a choice to be recommened) is the loss of a conscience, all human decency, and the substantial likelyhood of eventual arrest and disgrace. Sadly, if we really are grownups, our choices are never easy.
We could do all children a huge favor by explaining this to them early in life while they still have time to find out who they are before they become trapped between the unpleasant choice of living on very little money or working long hours hours on work that means nothing to them except the pursuit of money.
As a lawyer, it is not so much that i mind the work. It is the extent of the demands on my time that I very much mind. I console myself with the knowlege that I am doing my best. Unfortunately life as a grownup is almost never easy or glamorous for anyone and the best anyone can do is choose between difficult options. There is some compensation in being able to help others if one makes intelligent choices but the hard choices never stop or go down easy.
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eichler1
Apr 20, 2009 10:31 AM CST
Others have covered it, but at 43 you definitely adopt. I and my wife adopted 2 children from Guatemala, which at the time was amenable to adoptions by people up to age 50. (Currently, adoptions from Guatemala have been halted, see http://www.guatadopt.com/archives/000979.html#000979)
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Lawyer Mom
Apr 20, 2009 3:18 PM CST
#15, I don’t work 12-14 hour days 6 days a week like the author and I think I’m too far into my career and life to all of a sudden get bitter as you suggest. I did work 1600 hours a year as opposed to 1900-2200 like I do now when my first two (of three) kids were babies. But my supervising partner actually paid me the same to work four days a week for him (at 4/5th of 1600 hours) at a twenty lawyer firm that I was making at a 250 plus lawyer firm. I appreciate the problems you have witnessed at what apparently was a very disfunctional law firm but I don’t think it’s the norm and frankly I am tired of people judging our profession by a handful of very large firms. I have worked with men and women who are very successful AND have happy families in small and mid-sized firms. I have been a lawyer for fifteen years and I have met many successful lawyer moms. In my opinion they have it all. In yours they do not because they have sacraficed “me time.” Keep in mind that tending to small children for long hours every day doesn’t leave a lot of “me time” either so you probably aren’t heading for much of that whichever route you choose. I applaud you for recognizing before it’s too late that you should put some serious energies into your family. I did the same and it pays off.
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reality check
Apr 21, 2009 6:30 AM CST
#49 Lawyer Mom. Anybody “can have it all” if you work 1600 hours a year. That’s just like any other regular (non-big law firm) job. The article is exactly about those other firms, the BigLaw firms (more than 600-800 attorneys) like the one where it seems the person the article was about worked. My comments were about exactly those firms. I’ve been at 2 such firms with 1,300+ attorneys. My comments were just about partners in such firms trying to sell the “you can have it all” to the young associates based on false pretenses (because they were able to make it only thanks to those special circumstances I described in my original post #15). What you did, meaning working 1600 hours when your kids were small and then go back-up to a 1900-2000 hours when they are older, is exactly what I would like to do (and I am close to doing) and THAT IS NOT THE POINT OF MY COMMENT, once you find the firm with such low billable requirement, it’s not hard to achieve work-life balance during child rearing/raising years. But the problem I was pointing out AGAIN, is precisely about all those young female associates in the bigger law firms (which are quite many - hence the constant discussion in this journal which is known to be mainly focused on big law firm issues) which are being fooled by those partners. I bet D’s billable requirements in a 300+ lawyers firm are not the same either. Again and again and again, my point is only about those big law firm female partners that fill their mouths with you can have it all: make it in big law, have children, have a husband, etc., etc., when they were only able to make it, again, again and again, I shall repeat, because of those special circumstances. Again, anybody billing 1600 can have work-life balance. FYI, 1600 in big law firm is NOT EVEN PART-TIME! Part time gets only as low as 1750 in the big law firms. The ME time is not what I am gunning for! I just want to put my kids to bed every night, see them at least 2 hours a day and hope that they will feel I was around while they were growing up. Getting to the office by 6:30am to do all the work required to make the 1900 mark plus all BD time and make it home for dinner at 7pm is not work-life balance in my book, no matter how little ME time you leave for yourself (oh! and did I mention that I count the 5 hours of sleep I get on average as ME time?). One last time, the point I was making was about young lawyers like myself, who graduated from ivy league top of their class, for whom it was nothing to get 4-5 offers from top-ten ranked firms, who after achieving all of that, may loose sight of the reality after all the b.s. that is fed to them by the old female partners they encounter in those top-ten ranked law firms. THANK YOU FOR YOUR POST, you just confirmed my beliefs! I feel even better now about my assessments and my chosen nickname and I REST MY CASE!
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