Law Students
Incoming 1L Writes Columnist About Fear of Never Having Fun Again
Posted Jul 15, 2009 7:39 AM CST
By Debra Cassens Weiss
A panicked woman about to enter law school writes an advice columnist about her fears—of loneliness, a life of drudgery, missed opportunities and huge student loans.
The woman tells Salon columnist Cary Tennis that she really wants to be a writer, but she has also always dreamed of becoming a lawyer like her father. Now she worries that her priorities and her father’s priorities are different. “He graduated from a state law school and has practiced in his home state ever since,” she writes. “I am a mover; I yearn to go; I don't want to stay in one place and work myself to the bone.”
The incoming 1L then identifies her major fear: “I am afraid that I'm going to be alone,” she says. “I am finally living in a city that makes me happy and working at a job that I enjoy. I am surrounded by friends who love me. I feel like an individual for the first time in my life. But my lifestyle is the night lifestyle, and if I go to law school, I'm going to have to give that up, at least in part. I'm afraid that I'll never see my friends, that my boyfriend is going to leave me, that I'm never going to have fun again. When I think about being a lawyer, I panic.”
The conflicted advice seeker also explains that she has $100,000 in debt from her undergraduate education and little clue how she will repay the money, since all of her work experience is in the service industry.
Columnist Cary Tennis doesn’t think the woman should give up on law school—at least not yet. Tennis encourages the woman to envision her ideal career as a lawyer, and to put together a law school “survival kit” that includes such things as bubble bath, a photo of someone who inspires her and family mementos.
Imagine a happy life as a lawyer, Tennis advises. Think about where you will be living, what kind of law you will be practicing, and what kind of clients you will be seeing. “It may sound a little unscientific, this invitation to imagine your life, but the reason for doing it is to stimulate your emotional connection to the idea of law school and to give you something to look forward to, something that makes it worth it.”
“Remember: You can always quit,” Tennis adds. “And it's not like law is a dead-end career. You can still be a writer, or be president, or hang out with your boyfriend, and you don't have to give up your life. You don't have to become someone you aren't. You just have to get through law school.”
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Comments
Anon
Jul 15, 2009 9:18 AM CST
The columnist’s advice was counterproductive, to say the least!
Although this article does not mention what tier of law school the advice-seeker was planning to attend, it is plain that she doesn’t want to be a lawyer in the first place. (Inter alia…)
Why encourage her to incur another six digits’ worth of debt?
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HNJ
Jul 15, 2009 9:30 AM CST
We need more info. If she plans on getting another $150,000 in debt from a TTT law school, doesn’t really want to be a laywer, and is just trying to do what she “ought to do” to please her Dad she is nuts!!!
Don’t do it.
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Cj
Jul 15, 2009 9:36 AM CST
I think law school sounds like a great idea in her case… good luck honey!
....right….
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mac
Jul 15, 2009 9:40 AM CST
Um, why is she going to law school if she likes her current job and lifestyle? If she goes to law school she can kiss that all away because she will in essence be in debtors prison. Skip law school and continue doing what you do now.
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michael
Jul 15, 2009 9:54 AM CST
law school is a commitment and investment of her time and money. While her career paths will be opened wider once she has earned the degree, she has to earn it first.
From what was shared in the article, it doesn’t sound like law school is really the step she wants to take.
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daj
Jul 15, 2009 10:03 AM CST
lol @ the bubble bath and family momentos.
That’s not going to help here with 300 pages worth of cases to read, research for LRRW, and a brief to write all while applying for jobs at firms that are laying off.
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associate
Jul 15, 2009 10:09 AM CST
I’m taking it that the columnist isn’t a lawyer? And from the looks of it, I’m not sure she knows any.
I’m also going to go way out on a limb here and guess that the columnist doesn’t have an accounting background.
All of the fears are there because she KNOWS that’s what’s going to happen. If people would quit denying their instincts so much, they might find themselves in better situations.
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hgr
Jul 15, 2009 10:25 AM CST
“While her career paths will be opened wider once she has earned the degree.”
Nonsense. If you have a law degree and want to do anything other than law it is a problem….in fact it narrows your career prospects.
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Jack Wright
Jul 15, 2009 10:25 AM CST
Friend,
I am a rising 2L in law school down in Florida. I graduated from the University of Michigan with just as much undergraduate debt as you, and I am once again finding myself racking up more debt.
However, I am not afraid of what’s to come, for during my 1L course, I still went out all the time (reflected in my 2.7 GPA) on the town, and I never lost track of my girlfriend, who lives in Ann Arbor, Michigan. She and I saw each other all the time when we could, and she is now moving down at the end of this summer to be with me.
I am currently working as a student clerk for a Federal Judge in Toledo, Ohio doing Bankruptcy. It is a wonderful opportunity, and the time I have off, I have given up on movies and TV, and I have successfully dug myself deep into the novel that I am writing which I positively project will be available this Christmas. You will just have to make time, and realize that if you balance your life out, the debt will work itself out. And should you find the time to put an hour or so into something YOU love (i.e. working for yourself), maybe from that venue down the road, you will make more money than you could have imagined from the legal profession.
Hope all is well, and goodluck!
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fred
Jul 15, 2009 10:54 AM CST
Tennis encourages the woman to envision her ideal career as a lawyer, and to put together a law school “survival kit” that includes such things as bubble bath, a photo of someone who inspires her and family mementos.”
WOw, file under “worst advice ever,”....it’s alsmost as useful as law grad advice in this economy….“just network.”
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Chris
Jul 15, 2009 11:37 AM CST
She wont have fun again. She will be hopelessly in debt well into the six figures, with no prospects of job opportunities and no way to discharge her debt in bankruptcy. She will be precluded from all but the noisiest and hottest jobs.
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Absurd
Jul 15, 2009 11:38 AM CST
Where the hell does this person get off encouraging this clueless young woman to still consider law school?
1. It is obvious that being a lawyer does not go with this girl’s life.
2. She enjoys her leisure time and her friends. 3. She doesn’t really want to be a lawyer.
4.She also happens to be six figures in debt just from undergrad.
The legal market is terrible right now, has been terrible for at least the last ten years, and is not going to get better any time soon. But it’s all right. Don’t give up. Just take a bubble bath and all will be A-OK.
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John
Jul 15, 2009 2:00 PM CST
Abandon hope all ye who enter here . . . .
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B. McLeod
Jul 15, 2009 4:00 PM CST
John found the old Heller sign!
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yucky advice
Jul 15, 2009 4:11 PM CST
Oh, this is CLASSIC. And then to follow it up with “you can be a lawyer or a writer or president!” Why, sure you can dumpling! And then you can be a ballerina and movie star and a pretty, pretty princess too!
But I guess when a grown woman tells you:
(1) she’s $100k in debt and
(2) she kinda, sorta wants to be a lawyer, or a writer, but she’s a “mover,” and doesn’t want to stay in one place or work too hard, or any of that yucky stuff,
I guess she deserves advice like this.
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Bean Counter
Jul 15, 2009 4:20 PM CST
If she is already $100k in debt from undergrad and has no idea how to repay that from her current job in service industry, she should not take on additional debts for something that she has no idea whether she will enjoy or not.
Law school is an investment of time and money. Just like any other investments, a wise investment will investigate and only leap forward when he/she is sure of his/her choice. Only then, there can be no regret.
If she does go to law school, we can expect another post about law school grad complaints for not able to discharge student loans.
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What??
Jul 15, 2009 11:50 PM CST
Law School Survival Kit?? A bubble bath and some photos aren’t going to get her through finals or the fact that she regrets leaving a happy life and a job she enjoys for more debt & a career she doesn’t even know she wants…
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Debra Doux
Jul 16, 2009 3:42 AM CST
Let the girl alone. She is having second thoughts. She knows how boring law school is, and that the men are for the most part jerks. As a former party girl myself, it was all I could do to get through 3 years of guys leering at me, picking their noses and scraching themselves. UGH. Now I am a lawyer and still face these type of losers.
I recommend that this woman think carefully of where she will be for the next 3 years, then tell Dad of her decision.
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B. McLeod
Jul 16, 2009 10:32 AM CST
Or, she could imagine life as a happy soldier in the U.S. Army. Plenty of friends and travel opportunities! Maybe she could join the Army with the tennis courts and the condominiums. . .
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L.
Jul 16, 2009 6:14 PM CST
Just want to remind everyone that John Grisham started out as a lawyer and ended up as a best-selling author. Though I doubt this girl is going to be the next John Grisham since she seems to be lacking in motivation.
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B. McLeod
Jul 16, 2009 6:21 PM CST
Maybe she could be a great actress. They’re always asking, “What’s my motivation?”
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Ed
Jul 17, 2009 4:22 AM CST
If your not sure that the law or law school is for you, take more time to decide what you want to do. I waited 6 years after undergraduate school before I went to law school (at night). At that point, I was ready and committed to the pursuit of my law degree.
Will she find happiness in practicing law? That is only for her to determine.
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Brian
Jul 17, 2009 4:34 AM CST
Anybody who worries about never having fun again has no business being a lawyer, because they won’t. Its satisfying work, but not “fun” work.
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Ronn
Jul 17, 2009 5:52 AM CST
That woman should not go to law school. In fact she should get to work and pay down her debt right away. It’s actually fun to work and to do a good job. You actually can find work that you can do well and enjoy. Yes, even if you have a law degree, but she doesn’t need one of those right now.
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Anon
Jul 17, 2009 6:00 AM CST
Ah….so naive. She’ll never make it, will she? Sad.
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Hobbes
Jul 17, 2009 6:08 AM CST
It’s very simple. Don’t follow the law unless you love it. Take your example from Sotomayor: she has obviously given up everythng else in her life to be a great lawyer and judge. If you’re not prepared to let go of your other interests, you should not get involved in Law.
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Bush One
Jul 17, 2009 6:32 AM CST
Debra Doux @ #18 is secretly Elle Woods
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Pragmatist
Jul 17, 2009 6:43 AM CST
B. McLeod @ 19:
“Maybe she could join the Army with the tennis courts and the condominiums. . .”
LOL!!
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Brittany
Jul 17, 2009 6:43 AM CST
Don’t go—especially if you’re a “mover”. I feel restricted every time I want to move. I’ve taken 3 bar exams now, and am waiting a few more months to reach my 5 years of practicing so that I can waive into a few states. Stay in the job you like—one without all of these licensing requirements I hope. It’s hard to find a job in law, and even harder to find one you like.
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Honza Prchal
Jul 17, 2009 6:57 AM CST
Law school is less likely to pay off those debts than add to them, especially if the woman has any technical skills whatsoever, but it will put off marriage and getting moving on finding a real career. The world has enough miserable undirected attorneys and the pay scale for most of us is not enough to cover that kind of metastasizing debt while living “the night lifestyle” or other selfish straight from TV delusions. Colleges have been becoming universities since the 1970s by adding a law library and faculty. Technical skills are rarer, and remain in greater demand.
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Donald
Jul 17, 2009 7:00 AM CST
Wow. That columnist has no idea what a legal career is really like. And she fails to understand the amount of money it will cost to get a law degree, not to mention the opportunity costs of not having any real income during those years. Get some bubble bath and inspiring photos? The letter writer knows she’s headed down the wrong path but seems unable (or unwilling) to stop the train. The columnist seems to have had the last opportunity to slam on the brakes, but failed to do it. I wish the 1L the best of luck—she’ll need it.
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Andrea
Jul 17, 2009 7:03 AM CST
BAHAHAHAHAAAA Bubble bath? Seriously?
This woman should NOT go to law school—she likes her job and her lifestyle, why is she trying to fix what isn’t broken? Hanza is right—in this economy she’s just going to get more debt for the privilege of being miserable. There are a lot of people making a lot more money than me with about 1/2 the debt—with more free time and healthier life style. Don’t do it!!!
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Harold
Jul 17, 2009 7:04 AM CST
I think she is missing the big picture.
The practice of law is not a job, it is a profession and as a profession the practice of law winds up, for better or worse, defining us, our lives and our relationships.
Unless one is willing to make the commitment and sacrifices to be a professional in this profession, one should not quit their day job.
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jad
Jul 17, 2009 7:13 AM CST
Why is she thinking she SHOULD go to law school? Because her dad is a lawyer. Everything she is saying makes me think she would not enjoy being a lawyer and would be trapped due to her debt load.
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HT
Jul 17, 2009 7:20 AM CST
This is perhaps the dumbest thing I have ever read. WTF is the point of this. Sounds like a typical loser american girl!!!!!
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Catherine
Jul 17, 2009 7:22 AM CST
This is ridiculous. Why is she writing to Cary Tennis in the first place? Someone please get this woman on the ABA mailing list—she can get much better advice in these comment threads!
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happytomakeless
Jul 17, 2009 7:26 AM CST
I agree with all of these comments. But the productive advice goes beyond this potential 1L who seems particularly inapt for law school—law school should not be used as a safety net because you do not know what to do with your life or because someone wants you to do it. How many people did we all see in our classes drop out the first year or later because they really had no goal for after law school. Law School is not just a continuation of college. The first year at minimum is real drugery with one exam at the end of each semester for each class where teachers don’t necessarily care (unless you do) if you’re “getting it” or not—and if you are not there for a reason it’s easy not to do the work, get poor grades, and either drop out or finish but have a huge debt and nothing to show for it because you still don’t want to be a lawyer. Worse, even if you are smart and do well even without a motivating reason, you have to incur the second dose of huge drugery with the bar exam. And if you pass that and do land a firm job or something similar, you are also extremely likely to burn out in your first year as a lawyer if you really don’t want to be there.
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mel
Jul 17, 2009 7:29 AM CST
Why not recommend that she work as a legal secretary or paralegal for a few years to get to know the profession before entering a huge committment like law school?
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In H
Jul 17, 2009 7:32 AM CST
I’d be concerned for her, but at least she has a realistic fallback plan (being president). But seriously, a law degree really is beneficial in non-legal careers, so this wouldn’t be a terrible move if she isn’t wasting a huge pile of money on one of the craptastic private diploma factories. A quality public law school is really a vastly superior option for most students.
As it relates to her comments about being afraid of losing friends, being swamped, etc. with law school, somebody really needs to explain to her that the first semester is the only hard part of law school. After the adjustment period is over law school is extremely easy (no, I didn’t blow grades off - I graduated in the top 15% of my class).
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kasey
Jul 17, 2009 7:33 AM CST
Her ambivalence about being a lawyer is a red flag. She needs to postpone law school and grow up a bit. Law school is far too big a committment to afford to be wishy washy about your goals. Also, if she is more interested in her “night life” I don’t think she is going to be disciplined enough to read/brief cases each night and keep up with outlining, etc., which, unless things have changed since I was a 1L 12 years ago, should be your key priorities your first year.
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Law in the Middle
Jul 17, 2009 7:42 AM CST
Law students are some of the homeliest introverted cynical people I have ever met in my life. All of these posters are whiners who disparage trying anything. Like #9, I too am a rising 2-L at a Top 50 lawshool in flyover country. I am slightly older than the median age of students at my school. I have a family. But best of all I had a career prior to attending lawschool. I workded in business and refined my personality. I learned how to talk to people, but best of all I learned how to listen.
Most of the posters on these law blogs, I noticed think very much inside of a box and have cookie-cutter expectations of themselves and their lives. Admittedly I could be somewhat of a risk taker, because my wife is highly educated and makes really great money, but I’ve resolved myself to take any opportunity that come my way. People on these posts look down their noses at, for example, personal injury plainitffs attorneys. But if that is what I have to do for twenty years, so be it. I am not so pretentious or precocious to believe that I am above practincing any sort of law. Of course I have my dreams and interests, but when life gives you lemons, you better go buy a pitcher and some sugar real quick! (Analogy: If the only work you can get is PI plainitffs, go buy a fast car so you can keep up with all of the ambulances!). I agree with anohter poster above, lawschools should teach more practical lawyering skills in the second and third year. They should also require at least one semester’s worth of business and business development course work as well.
In my home city (which is admittedly a huge city), I know quite a few attorneys personally, and my father’s own law practice before he retired, who are in small shops, admittedly, working grueling hours but making very nice livings doing the type of law most of you would look your noses down at plaintiffs work, municipal law, insurance defense, etc.
I think the biggest problem with the legal education is that it attracts the wrong candidates. The LSAT is a good proxy to determine who might be a good law professor, not a good practitioner. A better proxy might be an LSAT/GMAT/GRE hybrid with a personal interview to get some entrepreneurial-minded law students with personalities. (And before any of you start assuming about my LSAT score, I am on full scholarship at my institution just based on my score).
Get a life and you may get a job.
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Anon
Jul 17, 2009 7:55 AM CST
My advice:
1. Bail on law school. If you think you’re panicked now, wait until finals week. You’ll probably quit then anyway, so you might as well save yourself a semester’s tuition.
2. Continue working the your fun job, partying with your little friends, deferring your student loans as much as you can, and living off your lawyer daddy. If he cuts you off, credit cards are a great way to maintain the lifestyle of your choice. After all, you’re only young once.
3. Most importantly, before you get too old, find a rich old man who likes to travel, marry him, and live happily ever after.
Good luck!
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Late in Life Attorney
Jul 17, 2009 8:09 AM CST
Law school can be interesting and is always challenging, but a student really needs to want it to get through with good grades and to savor the experience.
This incoming student may be better off putting law school off for a few years to follow her current career and see where that leads her. The legal profession is flexible enough that older graduates can and do find jobs with good firms, and often better ones because they have real work experience that complements the type of law they decide to practice.
She should consider working for a few years at the job she currently enjoys, try to pay off some of her student debt and save an equal amount to be put towards law school costs. If she decides to go to law school in a few years, she will be in a better financial position and incur less debt, and if she decides to take her life in another direction she can use the savings to pay off more of her undergraduate debt.
If she does go to school this fall, the most important thing she can do is try to find some balance. I worked full time at an executive position, went to law school at night, and rode and showed by horses as my outlet. The key to doing this was keeping up with my reading for school whenever I had down time such as lunch, commuting time on the train, etc, as well as doing some of the reading and case write-ups on the weekends around the horse shows and riding.
It can be done, she can have a life, and she can get good grades. Stress will get to her, but if she can keep a balance in her life and keeps up with her studies, then when she gets a stress-out day, she can step away from studying and give herself a bit of fun time.
Whatever her choice, good luck to her. I was able to do it, my husband did not feel terribly neglected, I got good grades, and I got a great job in the field I had worked and loved before law school because I had experience that the firm loved. Just consider postponing a few years if you are not yet ready.
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Erin
Jul 17, 2009 8:24 AM CST
Jeez, worst advice ever. I wish there was some way to make the poor girl read the comments posted here by actual lawyers who know what we’re talking about. If she’s already 100K in debt and (presumably) looking at another 150K+ in order to attend law school, she’s going to need a big firm job just to make ends meet. Meanwhile, lawyers are getting laid off by the dozens and the structure of legal employment is likely on an irreversible path to change. And of course, unless she’s going to one of the very top law schools (which seems unlikely based on her description of her post-college path) or she’s hardworking and lucky enough to be in the top 5% of her class (also unlikely) big firms are not going to be an option at all.
I’d tell this girl that, if she likes to travel and is concerned about her debt, she should enroll in a volunteer program that will allow her to defer her loans or make her eligible for loan assistance - Peace Corps, Americorps, or a similar nonprofit-run program. Then she’ll have some actual work experience and life skills that will translate into employability outside of the service sector.
I’m not the type of person to tell everyone I meet not to go to law school. There is one very good reason to go to law school: because one wants to be a lawyer. If you’re considering it for any other reason, don’t go.
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Jimmy J
Jul 17, 2009 8:39 AM CST
If she’s worried about debt, then law school is NOT the way to go. Minimum $75k for any mid-level-top tier school. If her lifestyle is a concern, then she can kiss it goodbye for the next 10-12 years.
The legal profession has the lowest job satisfaction rate of almost any other ‘profession.’ Why should she voluntarily put herself in that position? If she has another passion, then she should really pursue that to its fullest first—being a lawyer is generally not a passionate profession. Aside from the few criminal and family lawyers I know, most lawyers would much rather be doing ‘something else.’
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Charles Seemann Jr.
Jul 17, 2009 8:42 AM CST
The whole article made me gag. Both the incipient 1L and the Salon columnist should read the article about Jack Welch’s speech in this same issue. His view is a restatement of three axioms abut life that many people never understand. They are: Life is a series of choices, many very important with large consequences. One must make the prices of the choices he makes. And, you can’t have everything. The 1 L wants to have her cake and eat it, too. It doesn’t sound to me as if she is ready for a respectable law school. If she goes she will wind up writing letters to this Journal, complaing because she didn’t make partner somewhere; but if she doesn’t go, she will be writing letters to Salon or Cosmo, complaining about “the road not taken.” CFS
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Jen
Jul 17, 2009 8:55 AM CST
You know, i was not even able to get through the entire article because the whining was so loud and the stupidity was overwhelming!
Life is about choices and consequences (both positive and negative). If you choose to go to law school, then your life will change for the positive and for the negative. She will have to decide if the positives outweigh the negatives.
Even if she chooses not to go to law school, her life will still “change” with negative and positives.
There are not guarantees in life, just choices. And the only thing we can do is try to make the best choices for us at the time. Hindsight is 20/20 and unfortunately you can’t go back and do a “do over.”
And to Tennis…why do people think that all a woman needs a bubble bath. You should be ousted out of the female “race” for such a demeaning and ridiculous comment.
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nichelaw
Jul 17, 2009 9:00 AM CST
I agree that the “advice” given to this woman is a complete joke, but I’m a little surprised at all of the posts agreeing that she’ll never have any fun as a lawyer. Do you all really feel that way? Sure, sometimes it’s a big pain in the ass to work the late hours searching for nonexistent authority, or reviewing loads of boring documents, but that’s not all there is to being a lawyer. What about arguing summary disposition motions, or appeals? Or helping clients start a new business enterprise? There is certainly fun to be had as a lawyer; if not, you’re in the wrong profession.
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bublefeathers
Jul 17, 2009 9:10 AM CST
If she wants to have fun she can always read the comments in the ABA Joural. Whoppee - what a life!
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Wayne Isaacks
Jul 17, 2009 9:21 AM CST
Choices, Committment, Wprk, Fear, Fun, Cost.
I say find your passion, your long suit, and persue it. If your work is in your passion, it’s not work - it’s fun. It may be hard and challenging but, on balance, produces life-long positive reward. The costs become irrelevant.
Sadly, the schools, federal government and lenders have effectively conspired (whether orchestrated or not) to hyper-inflate college and advanced degree costs, pushing our young talent wanting rich sonsors into indentured servitude in exchange for a degree . For many this is the price of the ticket to thier passion. It’s a tough barrier, but passion prevails. We ought to fix that cost barrier.
If a pursuit is not your passion, don’t take that long, hard, often lonely road. Only passion will sustain you through its trials.
Find your passion and follow it.
Finally, as a CPA and Attorny to closely-held business owners for 35 years, I have observed with certainty, that there is no activity, pursuit, or concept encounterd or dreamed in human experience that cannot be turned to a profitable pursuit. There is a market for everything and anything, from the concrete to the illusory. Find your passion, figure out the market for it, and go for it. I personally recommend contructive, socially productive pursuits, but the obsevation holds for all.
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