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U.S. Supreme Court

Justices Mull Whether to Consider Obama Citizenship Case

Posted Dec 5, 2008 7:53 AM CST
By Molly McDonough

Updated: U.S. Supreme Court justices are scheduled to hold a private conference today to consider high court petitions. One that is bringing loads of attention from the media is a case challenging President-elect Barack Obama's citizenship and eligibility for office.

The court did not announce a decision today about whether it would hear the case that Justice Clarence Thomas has listed for the Friday conference, reports The Swamp, a Chicago Tribune blog.

Supporters of the petition held vigil today while the justices met, the Chicago Tribune reports in an earlier story.

The petition is a continuation of a New Jersey case filed by Leo Donofrio that originally sought to stay the election. The Tribune notes that there are many other efforts throughout the country trying to derail Obama's presidency on claims that he wasn't born in the United States or later renounced his citizenship.

Obama has maintained he was born in Hawaii, and Hawaiian officials say his original birth certificate is locked in a vault.

Updated at 3:20 p.m. CT to note that there was no announced decision on Friday.

Comments

1.

Biden will be next president
Dec 5, 2008 8:14 AM CST

Why is Obama afraid to release his origional birth certificate?  Do they not have birth certificates in Kenya? 

Most experts have already said the one he posted on his fight the smear site is a fake.

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2.

Bob C.
Dec 5, 2008 8:39 AM CST

His original birth certificate *has* been released. It shows he was born in Hawaii. He has supplied his birth certificate, the hospital is validating it, there’s nothing more needed. If all it takes is a couple of crackpots to say “I don’t care what the officials say, I think it’s fake” whenever someone they don’t like gets elected, then every single person running for President can be disqualified. All I have to do is say “McCain isn’t a natural citizen, his birth certificate is a fake”, “Palin wasn’t born here, her birth certificate is a fake”, “Biden wasn’t…..”, etc., etc., etc.

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3.

Joe
Dec 5, 2008 8:41 AM CST

How do you get this far in American politics without anyone checking your birth certificate??? Seems frivolous to me. I am a Republican so obviously during the election I was a McCain supporter, but give me a break here. This suit says there is no political oversight at all in our nation. It is scary if this is true, but I am not convinced that this is the case. When I got my first job at 16, I’m pretty sure that I had to show a copy of my birth certificate. To think that a Senator and now President-elect did not have to do the same is disturbing…... I think he’s legit.

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4.

RJP
Dec 5, 2008 8:48 AM CST

Obama HAS NOT released his original birth certificate. He leaked a Certificate of Live Birth through a front group internet site, which can be obtained by any foreign immigrant to Hawaii. Stick to the facts

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5.

James Orleans
Dec 5, 2008 8:58 AM CST

Hey Bob C.,

Can you kindly direct me to information regarding the hospital verification of Obama’s “Certification of Birth”?

Last I heard, no hospital in Hawaii has any record of an Obama birth, let alone verified his “Certification”.

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6.

Really?
Dec 5, 2008 9:04 AM CST

“experts have already said the one he posted on his fight the smear site is a fake” - If there is a choice between believing that he was born in HI or he sat down with Photoshop and created a fake birth certificate, I would have to admit I lean towards the former. But certainly our courts have nothing better to than sort this out…so why not spend some time and money on it.

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7.

RCnKC
Dec 5, 2008 9:22 AM CST

Bob C.
You are VERY misinformed.  Go Read the document released.  It is a COLB not a BC!
Big difference between the two on actual content information.
Dont feel bad Bob C. you are having about the same understanding as “professional journalists”. do of the issue…...

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8.

Amercana Right
Dec 5, 2008 9:28 AM CST

The constitution says Natural born citizen . Obama is not. The Media got him elected and now will have the truth Prevail. The truth will keep Americans free.Obama can write another book and make money the only thing most lawyers care about anyway

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9.

What happens next
Dec 5, 2008 9:33 AM CST

What happens when Obama is found to be a fake?  Who becomes President?  Does Biden because he is VP or he is disqaulified because Obama got there fraudulently and that is imputed to him as well?

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10.

Gonzo
Dec 5, 2008 9:50 AM CST

All agree, a foreign-born socialist was on the ballot for President of U.S.

Barack Obama?  No, Roger Calero of the Socialist Workers Party, who was on the ballot in five states, was born a citizen of Nicaragua, to foreign parents, on foreign soil.

It’s a serious matter that this sort of information seems to be hidden from the general public by the mainstream media.

We’ve got a problem in America with regard to our own adherence to our own Constitution.

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11.

Bird Smack
Dec 5, 2008 10:09 AM CST

Following our Constitution?  What a novel idea.  But we’ve been deviating from it for years when the need suits us (or suits at least five of nine).

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12.

9-5
Dec 5, 2008 10:25 AM CST

I have a question… I don’t know about immigration law but I thought if one parent was a citizen then the child was one too. What is this suit based on?

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13.

J. P. K.
Dec 5, 2008 10:26 AM CST

Comment removed by moderator.

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14.

Bruce Eden, Civil Rights Director, Dads Against Di
Dec 5, 2008 10:35 AM CST

If Obama’s birth certificate (actually certificate of live birth used when you can be born anywhere) is on the internet, why did the Hawaii Governor seal his “birth certificate” after Obama made his trip to Hawaii to “see his ailing grandmother” immediately before the election then? 

Obviously there are 2 birth certificates: The real one which shows he wasn’t born in the USA, nor that he is a citizen of the USA, that’s locked up in the vault of the Hawaii Vital Statistics building, and his fake “certificate of live birth” that he displays ALL OVER the internet.

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15.

Dante
Dec 5, 2008 10:35 AM CST

It truly frightens me when the comments to an ABA article read like those on a KKK Web site.  This confirms that our profession has only a poorly-deserved reputation for attracting intellect and the ability to reason.

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16.

Bruce Eden Civil Rights Director Dads Against Di
Dec 5, 2008 10:38 AM CST

If Obama is found to be a fake, the whole election gets de-certified, the Democrat ticket is nullified, and each state gets 1 vote to “appoint” an interim President and V.P.  Since there are more Republican states in number, McCain and Palin could be put into the White House.

Then there will be a new election. The people will be in an uproar over the Democrats perpetrating election fraud.  I guess the Democrats will lose big then, for submitting a fraudulent candidate and committing major felony crimes agianst the United States and the People.  I doubt if the Democrats will ever be able to win again after that.

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17.

Martin Snapp
Dec 5, 2008 10:41 AM CST

This lawsuit is totally bogus. Similar frivolous objections might have raised about McCain, who was born in the Canal zone, but the Democrats refused to stoop to such pettiness.
Get a life, losers.

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18.

borgward
Dec 5, 2008 10:41 AM CST

Probably not relevant where he was born, if his mother was an American citizen. Many children of American military personnel are born out of the US, but are considered citizens. They are not qualified to be president? Hmm McCain being a military brat, I wonder where he was born.

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19.

Bruce Eden Civil Rights Director Dads Against Di
Dec 5, 2008 10:43 AM CST

Comment removed by moderator.

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20.

DADZRITES
Dec 5, 2008 10:49 AM CST

The lawsuit is (are) not frivolous.  It does matter where Obama was born, with high probability, out of the country in Kenya, and was never made a US citizen when he moved to Indonesia as a child.  Indonesia doesn’t observe “dual citizenships”.  He had to become an Indonesian citizen, and according to records available, never changed it to US citizenship.

As for McCain, he was born on a military base &  his father was a US Admiral.  A military base is considered an extension of the United States, like its territories in Guam, American Samoa, and the Marshall Islands.

Obama should just make his birth certificate, college and medical records public.  But, he can’t.  It’s because those records all show he was born out of the country and is not a US Citizen.  It has been said he used his indonesian citizenship to get into Harvard and get all kinds of aid as an immigrant.

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21.

mwat
Dec 5, 2008 10:54 AM CST

You may not be racist, but your disappointment over the election has driven you to craziness.  His mother is American, he could’ve been born in Moscow surrounded by socialists.  He’s an American citizen.  Whether or not he was born in Hawaii is irrelevant.  It’s too bad comments on the ABA site can read like comments on youtube.

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22.

9-5
Dec 5, 2008 10:55 AM CST

Borgward and Martin bring up what I am so concerned about. Similar objections were brought up against McCain—he was born on a base. What does this mean for people who were born overseas while their parents were serving in the military?

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23.

Roberta Torian
Dec 5, 2008 10:57 AM CST

There’s no doubt that the mother of the President-elect was an American citizen.  IN addition, the hospital where he was born in Hawaii says that it has the birth certificate. The Supreme Court needs to spend its time on more important matters not those that are obviously frivolous like this one.  I can’t believe that some of these comments that show a total ignorance of relevant law are coming from lawyers.  No wonder the public holds lawyers in such low esteem.

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24.

Gonzo
Dec 5, 2008 11:00 AM CST

Back to the actual article of this webpage . . .

The case being discussed by the Supremes today is NOT about Obama’s birth certificate, per se.

According to this case, Barack H. Obama II is not qualified, because his father, Barack H. Obama I, was a citizen of the United Kingdom as a Kenyan. Kenya was a British colony at the time of Obama II’s birth in 1961. This citizenship was conferred to Obama II by U.K. law. Further to this case is the apparent fact that Obama II became a citizen of Indonesia, when he lived there as a child with his mother and adoptive father, Lolo Soetoro. This would mean Obama’s U.S. Citizenship status was revoked, since Indonesia had no dual-citizenship provision with the U.S.A.

According to this case, John McCain is not qualified, because he was born on a military base in the Panama Canal Zone, which was a protectorate of the United States and has never been a territory of the United States, even though his parents were U.S. Citizens.

According to this case, Roger Calero (on the ballot in five states) is not qualified, because he was born a citizen of Nicaragua, to foreign parents, on foreign soil.

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25.

mwat
Dec 5, 2008 11:02 AM CST

Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child’s birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.

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26.

DADZRITES
Dec 5, 2008 11:04 AM CST

Gonzo:  A military base is akin to an embassy.  It is American soil;an extension of the United States of America.

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27.

Luella Nelson
Dec 5, 2008 11:05 AM CST

This citizenship brouhaha is beyond silly.
Obama has traveled abroad, and returned.  He therefore must have a passport.
To get a passport, one must prove citizenship, which can be done in any of 5 ways:
1.  Previously issued passport (not applicable for the first one he got)
2.  Certified birth certificate issued by city, county, or state (most likely of the 5)
3.  Consular report of birth abroad or certification of birth (would only apply if, in fact, he was born in Kenya; the passport issuing officials ought to know if that’s what they got)
4.  Naturalization certificate (again, the passport issuing officials ought to know if that’s what they got)
5.  Certificate of citizenship (again, the passport issuing officials ought to know if that’s what they got).

So, if he got his passport using anything OTHER than a birth certificate from Hawaii, that should be readily ascertainable from his first passport application.

But that would be too easy.

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28.

JR
Dec 5, 2008 11:07 AM CST

To all the delusional Obama haters who want to talk themselves into a frenzy over his birth.  Get over it!  Obama won by a landslide.  I cannot believe your are lawyers or have any connection with the legal profession.

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29.

Rachel
Dec 5, 2008 11:11 AM CST

When I first heard about this issue I thought it was just a political smear tactic, however the more I followed it, the more I began to believe that there is something seriously wrong.  A large portion of this is due to Obama having all his records sealed and having spent more than $500K to prevent those records from being made public.  This is uncredibly suspicious, as well as unbelievably arrogant of Obama.

I am a retired peace officer and I swore an oath upon being hired to uphold the United States Constitution.  I took that oath very seriously at that time and I continue to do so to this day.  When I graduated from college I spent several hundred dollars getting dozens of certified copies of my birth certificate, college transcripts, and high school transcripts because along with every application I submitted for an entry level position with police/sheriff/probation departments that I applied to I was required to submit these documents along with copies of my diplomas. I also had to submit a list of all the addresses where I had lived since becoming an adult, and any trips I had made out of country. This information was used to conduct background investigations since I was applying for jobs that required a security clearance. Obama is applying for the highest office in the land and is refusing to produce these documents, even though Obama admits in his book that he has a copy of his birth certificate.

I looked over my own birth certificate recently and went over the information on it.  It clearly states on the document the address and Parish (I was born in Louisiana so the term “Parish” would be the equivalent of “County”) where I was born, as well as who delivered me.
I also went over my college transcripts and there are fields on it that indicate what your citizenship is as well as what grants, scholarships, and financial aid you received during your education there.  I am sure that grad schools would have similar information on their transcripts as well.

This is a link to an excellent article describing what the term ‘Natural Born Citizen’ means as defined by the author of the 14th Amendment (towards the bottom of the article). 
http://federalistblog.us/2008/11/natural-born_citizen_defined.html
“Rep. Bingham commenting on Section 1992 said it means “every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.”

Personally, after following this issue for the last couple of months, I have now come to the realization that I will never accept Obama as POTUS because Obama has failed to prove that he meets the eligibility requirements for that office.  The duty of SCOTUS is to protect the US Constitution and to ensure that the tenets therein are followed.  All nine Justices have sworn an oath to uphold the US Constitution, just as I have.  I have no doubt that SCOTUS will do the right thing by hearing arguments for this case.

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30.

Darrin
Dec 5, 2008 11:14 AM CST

I be gald when January come so we can swear President Elect Obama to office and get started with something more serious the state of our country and HIS!!!

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31.

Liz
Dec 5, 2008 11:17 AM CST

Bob C. 

He has never presented a real birth certificate.  Have you not read all the articles on this subject?  No one from the state of Hawaii has firmly stated that the certificate on file shows he was born in Hawaii, just that they are in possession of the certificate.  Have you seen the pictures of it?  Even the updated photo on one of the websites is shown at an angle, and slightly out of focus so you cannot see the information on it.

If there is no story behind this, why not just present the real certificate openly to all the media instead of just his own website?

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32.

J.D.
Dec 5, 2008 11:20 AM CST

FACTCHECK.org actually ADMITS HE’S INELIGIBLE! So does Obama’s “Fight the Smears” site. Other than the founding fathers themselves, a person born with dual nationality is barred from the presidency. A direct quote from Factcheck::

“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

“Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”

BUT it doesn’t matter that it expired; it matters that it existed when he was born. The founders CLEARLY only included themselves as an exception to having dual citizenship in their “at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution” clause. In full:

“No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution shall be eligible to the Office of President.”

The Framers declared themselves not eligible to be President as “natural born Citizens,” so they wrote the grandfather clause in for the limited exception of allowing themselves to be eligible to the Presidency in the early formative years of our infant nation.

Here’s the plaintiff’s explanation
http://www.lanlamphere.com/public/2008/11/22/what-is-a-natural-born-citizen-by-leo-donofrio/:

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33.

DADZRITES
Dec 5, 2008 11:20 AM CST

I guess the naysayers don’t give a damn about the Constitution.  It’s as if that document is a “dead letter”.  If it is, then all bets are off and no one will follow the law if Obama continues to willfully refuse to. 

I can’t wait to find out after he is inaugurated that he is not a natural born citizen, or a citizen at all.  All EOs and laws won’t be worth the paper their printed on if he tries to sign them into “law”.  Laws will have no meaning in this country then.

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34.

LegalGoddess
Dec 5, 2008 11:20 AM CST

Comment 12: His mother’s U.S. Citizenship is not enough to make him a de facto citizen if he was born in Kenya, because she was only 17 at the time.  Obama has three law firms fighting to avoid turning over his birth certificate.  If there isn’t a problem, why would he do that?  This is good insight into what we can expect next month in the ObamaNation.

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35.

shut up
Dec 5, 2008 11:20 AM CST

dante - are u racist toward non whites - why do you think people who critize obama are KKK

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36.

wh
Dec 5, 2008 11:20 AM CST

Is it so unreasonable to ask that he prove his citizenship?  I had to show my BC to get a passport.  I am not anti Obama but doesn’t it bother you that he won’t definitively answer these simple questions?  Why spend the legal money and dance around the issue if he has nothing to hide?  I am baffled and would like to know the truth (and I’m not a right wing whacko).  How can all the nasty, name calling Obama supporters commenting here not want to know the truth?  I don’t understand - are you afraid?

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37.

Sandy
Dec 5, 2008 11:22 AM CST

All of you claiming Obama hasn’t supplied his birth certificate/“certificate of live birth” should check out this post:  http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

Also, the director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.  And there was an announcement in a HI newspaper announcing his birth there when he was born.

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38.

ObamaIsNotMyPresident
Dec 5, 2008 11:27 AM CST

You ObamaBots are pretty scary.  You say “just get on with it,” and discard the Constitution?  It doesn’t matter if B.O. won 100% to 0% if he is not eligible.  If he has nothing to hide, why did he hire 3 law firms to block the release of his birth certificate?  He’s already spent over a half million dollars to hide it.  I wonder where that money came from!

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39.

Gonzo
Dec 5, 2008 11:29 AM CST

Apparently, Sandy only reads headlines, and doesn’t listen to others when they speak to him/her (previous comments address his/her comment).

When I need an advocate, Sandy won’t be my choice before the judge.

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40.

Bruce Eden, Civil Rights Director, Dads Against D
Dec 5, 2008 11:30 AM CST

Who would be naive to think Obama would have to show his passport when he leaves the country, especially since he has an entourage of Secret Service and other government officials.

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41.

J.D.
Dec 5, 2008 11:31 AM CST

NOR is Hillary Clinton constitutionally eligible to be Secretary of State, let’s not forget…..

...or does Sandy want to point to something in the all-powerful, all-knowing, super-constitutional Obama-created organization known as Fackcheck.org???

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42.

LegalGodess
Dec 5, 2008 11:32 AM CST

Sandy, I put birth announcements in the Detroit papers when my son was born ... in South Carolina.  People place birth announcements anywhere they think their friends and family will see it.  Did you find any announcement that says what hospital he was born at?  Neither of the hospitals in Honolulu have a record of his birth.  A COLB is what the give to people born overseas.  It is NOT a birth certificate.  You people have really drunk too much KoolAid if you don’t think it’s strange that he refuses to show his actual birth certificate.

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43.

liz
Dec 5, 2008 11:40 AM CST

Sandy….factcheck is hardly an unbiased site, and there have been a ton of articles showing what is presented on their site is actually a fake.  Don’t you find it odd that this same “proof” hasn’t shown up anywhere else?  ALSO…could you please provide a link to where the Hawaii Dept. of Health made that claim?  I have only found where they carefully state that they have the certificate, not what is on it.

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44.

binky
Dec 5, 2008 11:44 AM CST

This is complete BS.  I was definitely born in the US, and I was issued a “Certificate of Live Birth” too.  This is NOT something that is just issued for foreigners or whatever.

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45.

wildair1
Dec 5, 2008 11:44 AM CST

“Silence can only be equated with fraud when there is a legal and moral duty to speak or when an inquiry left unanswered would be intentionally misleading,” the ruling reads. “We cannot condone this shocking conduct ... If that is the case we hope our message is clear. This sort of deception will not be tolerated and if this is routine it should be corrected immediately.”
”United States v. Prudden, 424 F.2d 1021 (5th Cir. 1970), cert. denied, 400 U.S. 831 (1970).

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46.

anne
Dec 5, 2008 11:57 AM CST

I only trust that everyone knows what is rigth and what is wrong with this entire situation.  There is good and bad in everyone of us.  The problem I have is the United States has been through more than it’s share of problems in the last eight years, why add more problems with coverup and scandal.

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47.

Sandy
Dec 5, 2008 12:10 PM CST

Call it what you want.  The “COLB” clearly lists his City of Birth (Honolulu) and Island of Birth (Oahu).  If it is not intended as an official statement by HI’s Department of Health that someone was born when/where it says they were born, then what is the purpose of the document?

Also, I could see if all this hooplah was being raised because someone of authority asked Obama to produce his BC for some official purpose and had been denied, but that is not the case.  No court has asked him to do so, no board of elections; just these “attorneys” whose cases are getting denied all the way up to the supreme court.

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48.

Steve
Dec 5, 2008 12:12 PM CST

If he, Obama, is legit what harm is there to the country in having him produce all documents that support the question of citizanship.  If it turns out he is not qualified after taking the office all appointments, laws, orders he acts upon would become null.  All judgements from any of his appointed judges would become null.  The questions should be put to rest with a full examination by the SCOTUS followed by full disclosure to the public of the findings.

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49.

Apurva
Dec 5, 2008 12:18 PM CST

FROM THE US STATE DEPT WEBSITE:

Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child’s birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.

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50.

Steve
Dec 5, 2008 12:22 PM CST

Apurva,

Obama’s mother was 17 when he was born.  Does that mean she did not have the required 5 years after age 14 to convey citizenship?

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