Law Firm Manager Writes Post Columnist About Clueless Associates

B. McLeod
Mar 30, 2009 8:38 AM CST

Two-thirds turnover “within a year” means the firm itself is clueless.  Most lawyers do not emerge from law school knowing how to practice law.  If the firm wants lawyers who can do this, they should be hiring lawyers with 3-5 years experience.  If the firm is going to start lawyers just out of school, the firm needs to train them.  Associates need to be started out as second-chair assistants to partners, not as the attorneys directly communicating with clients or trying to move client matters on their own.  The way this firm appears to be going about things, it is a miracle they have one in three hires actually surviving the first year.

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DR
Mar 30, 2009 8:55 AM CST

My first position out of law school was with a small firm, and the training philosophy there was “throw ‘em out of the plane and hope they fly.”  The day after I was admitted to the bar, I had to appear in court on a motion and I can’t begin to tell you what a miserable experience that was!  But, that sort of trial-by-fire training worked for me, and somehow, I managed to get through those first years.  It also helped that I had a few, dedicated and patient mentors.

I had the advantage, though, of working for many years before getting a law degree.  I didn’t have to adjust to work life like a lot of new law grads.  I think the firm environment would be a harsh awakening for young grads.  Sometimes, because of time constraints or otherwise, I also get frustrated with new attorneys myself, but I constantly have to remind myself that I was in their positions at one time too.  It makes me realize how important it is to have a good mentor or at least someone who takes the time to guide you through the first rough patches.

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John
Mar 30, 2009 9:57 AM CST

——
Figure out attributes of successful associates and ask interview questions that will help the firm decide which candidates can handle the job.
——

As opposed to merely looking at an applicants school rank, grades, Journal membership, and who their Daddy and Mommy is?

Perhaps I’m cynical, as the local legal market where my law school was tended to be a bit more good ‘ole boy than some.  (Many of my female classmates were asked, up front, whether they planned to get pregnant soon.  Seriously.)

Quite frankly, law firms that fail to do their homework during the interview process have no sympathy from me.  Let them fail.  Let them lose 2/3rds of their new associates each year.

While certainly bitter after the countless interviews that where little more than chat sessions between bored law firm members (one firm even brought their rejection letters to the interviews and handed them out afterwards—pre-printed), I have no pity for the clueless.

And, after seeing how miserable my poor friends are who took those jobs, and the general lack of guidance they receive, I feel myself fortunate I didn’t have the “geographic credentials” necessary to get hired.

Sign me,
John Who’s Still Bitter About Awful OCI

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Bjorn T.
Mar 30, 2009 1:22 PM CST

Everyone I hire is an idiot who is unfit for the position!

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ThatLawyerDude
Mar 30, 2009 4:59 PM CST

Law firm recruiting is little more than trying to find a cog in a wheel. It is wrong headed. Partners should be looking for other future partners. instead they are looking for who can bill the most, who will sacrifice the most, who will make “me” rich.  It is no wonder that the lawyers who work for these people don’t “work” out.

I have a few clues for this middle manager
ask:|
What drove you to be a lawyer? Anything less than finding law a very good acedemic pursuit and wanting to serve others and that person won’t make it.

How did you envison your first job out of law school? If you aren’t feeding this vision, your associate is not staying, especially given the salary most small/medium size firms start people at.

How do you expect to spend your outside of the firm time? If they intend to sit home and watch their spouse they will not be a good partner, They have to get out and push the firm.

What do your siblings do for a living? Have you ever referred a person to them?

If it is appropriate to have referred others to a sibling’s business, but the prospect doesn’t especially out of fear that his sibling will fail him, then how do you expect that Prospect to cross sell.
Describe the elements of good mentoring?
If your firm doesn’t mentor that way, the kid isn’t going to be happy and he will be on his way.

There is a lot to lawyer building. In a small firm, there is the concept of” team”, “we”, and “one for all and all for one.” 

When we just hire by numbers, we get numbers, not lawyers.

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A Reader
Mar 30, 2009 9:11 PM CST

After reading this article and reflecting on law school, I came to the realization that the law school education system itself creates this issue.  You are constantly competing against the person next to you and are taught in order for you to succeed someone else must fail.  Nothing about this education system fosters team work or mentoring.  The individuals who are expected to “mentor” new hires are themselves the product of the same education system.  A new hire only knows what they know, and quite frankly that doesn’t amount to a whole lot.  Maybe they received high grades, but in the end it doesn’t count for much.  Experience is the best teacher, but nobody actually wants to impart their experience except when it is to tell someone what the did wrong.  A novel idea would be to help that person prepare before the task and then provide constructive criticism upon completion.

Just my two sense

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Bemused 3L
Mar 31, 2009 8:55 AM CST

4 is right on.  I went into OCI with solid (but not Top 10%) grades, law review membership, Moot Court, and several years of retail experience, all of which was on my resume.  I actually did get a job, but guess which credential mattered least to everyone I interviewed?

Some business models work with high turnover and no investment, but if it’s a problem at your firm and it’s happening this often, you’re doing something wrong.  Pay more, screen better, whatever—this is how a free market works.

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Samuel
Mar 31, 2009 1:05 PM CST

Also, I think it’s important to consider getting rid of the 3d year, because a lot of people are currently getting laid off, and face insurmountable debt. Thoughts?

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Joseph
Mar 31, 2009 10:32 PM CST

Samuel- I’d have to disagree.  The third year is important, but it should be devoted to clinical classes and classes with a practical component.  As for insurmountable debt, you only face that if you go to a private school.  Many state schools are very affordable.  Why anyone would spend $30,000 a year on tuition alone to attend anything less than a top tier law school is beyond me.

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khazeh
Apr 1, 2009 12:16 PM CST

The guy who wrote to the Post is forgetting the adage that the only common element in all your failed relationships is you. Either they can’t hire decent associates (probably because they pay very little), or they do a terrible job of training and supervising. Does he really think every firm has a 66% turnover rate?

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MJN
Apr 3, 2009 5:45 AM CST

Mr or Ms Lawfirm manager:  Wake up and look at yourseld!
As former corporate human resource manager and a lawyer who has practiced law for 22 years, I am sorry to say the problems described are management problems of the law firm and not of the associate.  Have the people who interview propspective associates ever been given formal training on oi nterviewing skills? My experience is in general, partners make the worst interviewers.  Second, have you taught your new associates anything about the business of law?  Assuming your law school grads are 20 somethings with a liberal arts undergraduate degreee, is it fair to assume they have any clue about the business side of working in a lawfirm? It certainly wasn’t covered in law school.  You are wasting your firm’s assests and resources and the problem is yours not theirs.

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PSd
Apr 3, 2009 6:20 AM CST

I just finished law school after a 25+ successful technical career.  Even though I am very qualified (“overly qualified” in everything but the law), I can’t even get in the door.  Why?  Because law firms don’t appreciate that I know how to work.  My skills in business development, project management, and running small businesses are transferable to law firms.  But law firms seek out the young associates and then complain that they’re clueless because they lack experience.  Being on law journal, top ten, or mock trial teams doesn’t substitute for good work skills.  This recession will be good for law firms—they’ll be forced to run like businesses.

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Robert W. Clark
Apr 3, 2009 6:40 AM CST

This article gives a perfect example of why, in almost any industry, cutting middle management is the best way to cut fat without having to worry about losing anyone of merit.

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Cheryl L. Sovern
Apr 3, 2009 6:50 AM CST

As others have already expressed, it appears that “middle management” has completely missed the mark on what the real problem is.  Many law firms lure unsuspecting, first year associates with the “glamorous” side of law.  That’s fine, but it needs to be coupled with the realities.  Perhaps a straight-forward talk about billing requirements, some tips on how to ensure that billing requirements are met and, just as important, a mentoring system.  Law school does NOT teach office practicum, nor does it teach how to maintain time sheets, control dockets, etc.  This is a mentoring task that should have been tackled by…  hmmm, let’s see…. maybe MIDDLE MANAGEMENT.

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Brad
Apr 3, 2009 6:55 AM CST

Robert -  LOL I couldn’t agree more.  I do find it odd that a small firm has “middle management”.  Depending on what a small firm is, most around here middle management is the know-it-all paralegal who thinks she is worth more than the attorneys that are there.

Everyone is preaching to the choir about grades, but they are a lazy man’s way to weed out the worse canidates at the bottom.  Sure the bottom can be good lawyers, just like the middle where I was at.  But I do not fault a firm for going for the top grades and hoping for the best.  You just hope that the other firms would have looked at my years of customer service and sales experience and realized with my writing, I would be a great lawyer who can bring in business.

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immigrantesq
Apr 3, 2009 7:02 AM CST

This article is an embracement for the firm and the “middle-manager” for multitude of reasons - your associates are a reflection of your firm - you hire the associates; having clueless associates is having a clueless firm; high turnover is a sign of unhappy firm/unhappy associates - in few words, a place I would not want to work for.  Good luck to the manager!

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A. L. DeWitt
Apr 3, 2009 7:06 AM CST

While it is likely problematic to focus on only one aspect of the problem, the firm ought to be looking at the classes that the successful associates took and comparing them with the classes that the losers took.  In Law School, particularly in 2nd and 3d years, students can take esoteric theory courses like Remedies or practical nuts and bolts classes like Trial Advocacy.  As an appellate lawyer, the theory classes put me in good stead.  But I was surely not prepared for my first trial because I bypassed that for Law Journal. 

I would also like to point out that partners and supervisors are rarely capable of determining when the load on an associate is too little or too big.  When I was fired from my first plaintiffs job I had 42 med mal cases on my desk, and was traveling 40% of the time (or more).  The approach of partners to the associates becomes something like “give it to Mikey, he’ll do anything.”  The result is stress, burnout, and failure.

But failure is just an opportunity to begin agan more intelligently.  I did that, and have it pretty well figured out this time.  And when I direct associates (which is rarely) I always remember what it was like when I was in their shoes.

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Ethan S. Burger, Esq.
Apr 3, 2009 7:19 AM CST

Greetings:

This article is a testament to why all law schools should place a greater emphasis on teaching lawyering skills that stress research, writing, oral advocacy and legal reasoning.  Furthermore, law schools should treat legal ethics/professional responsibility with the same degree of seriousness that they regard contracts or property courses. 

Indeed, those schools that have their tenure-track faculty teaching lawyering skills should be applauded; otherwise students are sent a bad message.  Of course, few schools seem to have such policies.  The faculty teaching these lawyering skills classes can only be experienced lawyers.

In the workplace, far too many large law firms do not value experience—the situation where where GS-15s make less than 1st year Associates is absurd.  Of course, there are exceptions, but the generalizations are accurate.  Look for more Age Discrimination in Employment Act (ADEA) law suits against law firms downsizing by lawyers with an “insufficient book of business.”

Frankly, many 1st, 2nd and 3rd year associates lack the life experience and often dedication to justify their billable rates.  There was indeed a rationale for the apprenticeship system.

Young associates are as a group bright and dedicated people.  Yet, many large law firms do not give them real responsibilities—hence the mass departure of 3rd year associates in better economic times since they will usually be treated as professionals in the government, offices of general counsels and law-related non-profit organizations.

Large law firm management is engaged in a lot of introspection during these difficult economic times.  Those law firms that purged their associates due to insufficient revenues will pay a heavy price when (if?) there is a recovery.  Until then, those firms with a strong bankruptcy practice will thrive.

Ethan S. Burger

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Older Guy
Apr 3, 2009 7:24 AM CST

What kind of small law firm needs a “middle manager”? This is the guy who needs to be shown the door. He’s useless.

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Abner Stanwick
Apr 3, 2009 7:28 AM CST

Regarding some of the comments about the 3rd year and cost of education…Does anyone else feel like they learned more in 6 or 8 weeks of bar review than they did in 3 years of law school?

I think I am going to start a new law school…1 semester of classes on how to read cases, jurisprudence, legal writing, etc.  Then an 8 week bar review class.  After that, one year of real world work experience.  You will be just as smart, it will take you less than 2 full school years, and I will only charge you $10k.

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Rocket Scientist
Apr 3, 2009 7:35 AM CST

You reap what you sow…..I was an evening student that worked their way through law school, had a career before law school, and know the “real” world, and even with journal, moot court, and several organizations on my resume I still would not be looked at twice by any medium or bog law.  The reason is that they watned someone that they could mold into their culture and not someone that could already think.  Top 10% in school seldom equals top 10% in the workforce.  Most of the 10% percent people I would be very afraid to let anywhere near the practice of actual law where much is built on client relationships and giving the client what they need without the academic BS.

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Andrej Thomas Starkis
Apr 3, 2009 7:49 AM CST

A consistent theme throughout the comments is that law graduates don’t for the most part know how to do what they’re called on (and licensed) to do and need to be trained and mentored into proficiency.  Therefore, some comments conclude, the fault is with the law firm and its manager.

Nonsense.

The fault is with law schools and the “ABA” Section of law professors who mandate that law school be an over-extended academic exercise more geared to providing them (the professors) with work and income than to preparing lawyers for their life’s work.

There is plenty of time in three years to teach prospective lawyers what they need to know about the law and the fundamentals of its practice—including arguing motions in court, among a number of other skills.  And, by the way, it can and is being done for a lot less than the absurd cost of over $100,000. 

I know, because I do it daily.

Andy Starkis
Massachusetts School of Law

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AG
Apr 3, 2009 8:15 AM CST

This article lays the foundation for implementing a “residency”-type requirement upon graduating law school.  Medical doctors do not get thrown to the wolves without some type of residency.  One of the problems is that young graduates, many of which have their first “real” job after graduating law school, have no idea what it takes to succeed with paying clients who rely on their expertise to get them through troubled waters.  A residency-type program for law school graduates is needed.  Otherwise, the law schools keep pumping out bar-eligible graduates who may be book-smart but who have no concept of the needs of businesses and/or individuals whom they represent.  There is no substitute for experience.

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John Eustermann
Apr 3, 2009 8:27 AM CST

Dear Middle Level Manager of underperforming associates:

I recommend you read the book: “The What of Management” - quick and easy read.  Green cover if I recall.  That will provide you both the answer to your question, and how to implement the recommended solution.

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Robert Surovell
Apr 3, 2009 8:47 AM CST

Law schools are cluessless and big law firms are abusive of young associates.  Law school deans measure their success in part by the percentage of students placed in jobs.  They ignore the facts described in this blog that the vast majority of the students placed drop out within three to five years.  We place enormous debt burdens on law school graduates and then enormous time burdens on them in emotionally unstatisfying employments.  Our professional schools ought to take the lead in reexamining the “whys whats and hows” of training lawyers.

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