NJ Attorney General Seeks Unemployed Lawyers Willing to Work for Free

wow
Jul 15, 2009 11:17 AM CST

Wow, what a “profession.”

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Bean Counter
Jul 15, 2009 3:30 PM CST

Agree with #2, “unemployed” lawyers in NJ should just sit at home sipping coffee, walking their dogs, or even playing video games AND not working for free, so they can gain valuable legal experience while being “unemployed.” 

Not working for free sounds like a great plan and will definitely jump start any “unemployed” lawyer’s career…  Uhh that is if they will ever have work for legal experience (and to explain the blank in their resume). 

By the way, I know plenty of doctors and dentists who work for “free.”  It’s call volunteer and it’s a popular thing to do among healthcare professionals.

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abe
Jul 15, 2009 4:07 PM CST

looks like the law school deans are out in force on this thread.

What, you guys getting nervous about losing those fat $200K salaries that you get for scamming the law school students into thinking that they can make a living with a third tier JD?

The fact is that there is a huge oversupply of lawyers, and that fact is clearly illustrated by the fact that those who hire lawyers now are advertising positions with ZERO salary!!!

Res ipsa loquitur, etc

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Do not work for free
Jul 15, 2009 5:40 PM CST

http://www.jdunderground.com/thread.php?threadId=37764

Pro Bono is for suckers, as is working for free for a state agency.

Best post?

Yes, but as a lawyer you hold a privileged position in society. You are an elite nobleman, and officer and gentleman of the court who owes more to the to the huddled wretched masses who worship you and your hallowed position in our free society than you could ever repay in a thousand lifetimes.

I actually think lawyers should pay clients for the privilege of doing pro bono work. And not only that, but also think lawyers ought to be orgasmically ecstatic about working for free, and constantly sing the praises of doing pro bono work to anyone who will listen. And be thankful for the opportunity to spend our days helping people who are too tightfisted to pay for a service that they need. Why should anyone pay for legal services, under any circumstances, ever?

Access to free legal services should be a protected right, and I actually think that any lawyer who charges money to a client for legal work ought to be disbarred. How dare they cheapen our noble profession like that.

No sacrifice is too great and no burden too heavy to bear, for we lawyers are the foundation of a free and democratic society and when noblesse oblige calls, who are we to say that we have bills to pay and food to put on the table? Why we are even discussing this? The answer seems so painfully obvious to me

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B. McLeod
Jul 15, 2009 7:10 PM CST

I think the AG should sweeten the pot, and at least agree to buy them lunch each day.

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mac
Jul 16, 2009 10:34 AM CST

Hey its still counts as employed as far as law school employment statistics go. Hooray for working for free!

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B. McLeod
Jul 17, 2009 1:30 AM CST

Aye.  We’re still a cut above pedophiles too.  Huzzah.

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jwc
Jul 17, 2009 7:32 AM CST

You who are so sure that pro bono is wrong, and those who thing attorneys belong in a special class, think again. Why did you go into the law? If it was only to earn money, or to put yourself in a higher status because of your power - you should turn in your licenses. You have obviously failed your ethics requirements. I am embarrassed to be in a group with you (if you are indeed attorneys). This noble profession arose because of the need to solve problems using standards that were developed by educated, egalitarian, people (humans). The fact that the weathly classes have been able to manipulate the law over the centuries to ensure their own wealth (and that of the attorneys) does not make it right to perpetuate such wrongs. FURTHERMORE- you could be hired by some hotsy totsy law firm or client and wind up having to represent someone your employer has compassion for - with the expectation that you are compassionate too. LASTLY, you cannot possibly be good at representing people if you lack the inability to get into their shoes (wether for purposes of knowing what to ask at a deposition, or what they are really looking for in compensation, or how to handle them when the will not agree to what you consider an overwhelmingly good settlement).
Stop being so narrowminded, greedy (that’s what got the world into this financial mess in the first place), immature (i.e. name calling - labelling people as being from ivory towers etc.) and ignorant. It’s time to get with the program - and if you do a good deed in the process - so much the better. The ones who benefit are not just members of the public - they are YOU!
It’s time to get with the program.

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pat zino
Jul 17, 2009 7:37 AM CST

Why knock it?  I would consider a 3 month no-pay position if it enabled me to gain experience and change career course.  I’m sure you could find a way to use AG experiecne to your advantage.

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Steve
Jul 17, 2009 7:56 AM CST

to #15   Over and over I read on this forums that any attorney or law student who considers the financial realities of paying for their degree is “greedy” or “motivated by money”

Most don’t get into this profession with the goal to become obscenely wealthy.  But we also didn’t go through 7 years of college to earn $0 either.  How long is a reasonable time to work for free?  a month?  1 year ?  5 years - as you sink into bankruptcy ?

If dozens or hundreds will work for free, I imagine some reluctance on the part of the State of New Jersey to start paying them in the future, even when they are able.

While it might sound like a wonderful opportunity to gain or maintain legal experience, it undermines the wages for the profession below that required to justify 7 years of higher education.

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Pedro
Jul 17, 2009 8:37 AM CST

Obama brought us hope and change.  No one should ever work for free in AMerica again.

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Sick of Pro Bono
Jul 17, 2009 9:07 AM CST

JWC, nice try at a pathetic staw man argument.

Most young attorneys are now don’t aspire to be rich and are not greeedy. We would just like to be able to pay our bills. Not surprisingly, working for free for the State of New Jersey does not assist in that pursuit. It is plain exploitation and no licensed attorney should take these jobs.

We are sick of being told to do pro bono by 50 year old attorneys who have ususally done nothing but pursue money….

If Pro Bono and serving the needy is so important then why don’t schools either
1. Lower tutition
2. Write off all student loan debt for their graduates that work in public interest law serving those “under-served” people.

Apart from the top 5 law schools, who have programs that wite off a small %, most law schools do not have loan forgiveness.

Given these facts it is just pro bono lip service.

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not beign short-sighted
Jul 17, 2009 9:23 AM CST

While the experience in this program is a good benefit, at least you will have done something during your unemployment which looks better than sitting on your butt. If you don’t want to do it to keep your sanity and gain valuable experience, do it for your NEXT employer who will likely value it more than your ability to tell them the latest happenings on the soaps.

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zenbiddie
Jul 17, 2009 9:48 AM CST

Loan forgiveness in return for volunteering at the AGs office is only reasonable.  Once all these unemployed lawyers start defaulting on their student loans, it will be worse than the mortgage crisis.

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Won't work for free
Jul 17, 2009 10:21 AM CST

It seems to me that if attorneys work for free as volunteers, New Jersey is violating the FLSA. You cannot have interns who replace the work of others work without being paid at least minimum wage. See http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/opinion/FLSANA/2004/2004_05_17_05FLSA_NA_internship.htm

Now, why the attorneys responding to this story and why the attorney general of NJ have not considered this problem, I don’t know.

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dewphila
Jul 17, 2009 10:37 AM CST

What about the Fair Labor Standards Act?  ‘Work for Pay’ is the law unless the arrangement fits an exception to this rule.  The arrangement described does not appear to fit the FLSA definitions for “intern” or for “volunteer.”

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Charis P
Jul 17, 2009 1:06 PM CST

#6 I wasn’t calling the program pro bono.  The comment regarding pro bono was directed towards George’s broad and sweeping assertion that unemployed lawyers doing ANY free work degrades such lawyers and the law profession.

The NJ AG’s office is not “exploiting” anyone with this new program for licensed attorneys or it’s older internship program for law students, which has always been a non-paying or extremely low paying program.  It’s not as if the NJ AG’s office is some kind profit generating mill that is exploiting the recession for to increase revenues.  This is a volunteer program with limited hours and time commitment designed to allow attorney’s to continue to search for legal employment while keeping their resumé active and providing legal training and free access to legal seminars.

#29 and 31 Individuals who volunteer their services on a part time basis for public service are not considered employees under FLSA.  The link that #29 posted is irrelevant as it is to an advisory letter regarding a student internship program offered by a private for profit employer.  There are no FLSA issues here.

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Esq
Jul 17, 2009 2:31 PM CST

@32:  No one graduating without a job is deluded into believeing that they will ever be hired by “Big Law” which is nearly incestuous in it’s severely limited hiring practices.  Big Law also happens to be making its way onto the endangered species list.  Good riddance.

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B. McLeod
Jul 17, 2009 6:17 PM CST

Charis P.‘s comments are often supported by sound legal analyses.

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Kalifornia Arnold
Jul 18, 2009 10:23 AM CST

#15 meet #22—right on!!—All of this noble talk about “pro bono” and helping the masses pales in the light of “DUE NOW!!!” bills.  There is nothing wrong with wanting to be paid for your work. Let all of the Biglaw partners do pro bono but leave the rest of us who have bills and families alone to earn a living.  It takes money to exist in this world.  Good intentions and noble ideas are fine but I recall an old saying: ” A poor man never offered me a job!”

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