Law Practice Management
MoFo’s NYC Office Tells Troops: Be Here By 9:30 a.m., Jumping Jacks Optional
Posted Jun 2, 2009 1:53 PM CST
By Martha Neil
Just in case associates might be thinking of rolling into work a bit belatedly over the summer, the managing partner of the New York City office of Morrison & Foerster has made clear that the firm's standard 9:30 a.m. in-person starting time is not discretionary.
And, if his own preference were followed, Charles Kerr tells the troops in an apparent joke, the work day would begin "with jumping jacks at 8:00 a.m. in the lobby," according to an internal communication he sent to associates today just after 8 a.m. that was forwarded to Above the Law.
Even though technological advances have made it easier to work remotely in recent years, this is no substitute for in-office availability to clients and colleagues, Kerr writes. Thus, although exceptions may occur and professionals should be able to manage their own work schedules, "it is very important that folks get to work on time."
Answer our related Question of the Week: "Roll Call: What Time Did You Get to Work Today?"
Related earlier coverage:
ABAJournal.com: "Vacation or Not, Lawyers Should Be Available via E-mail, Cleary Partner Says"
ABAJournal.com: "Curtis Mallet-Prevost Memo to Troops: No Chest Hair or Club Wear"
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Comments
B. McLeod
Jun 2, 2009 3:57 PM CST
Ha! 9:30 a.m. IS “a bit belatedly.”
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Legal Lady
Jun 3, 2009 8:04 AM CST
9:30 is standard? And a memo has to go out about that? Wow. What the heck time were people getting to the office?
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Jason
Jun 3, 2009 8:35 AM CST
wow. 90% of the attorneys in my firm are in the office before 8:00 and rest are in by 8:30 at the latest. I hate having to work some Big Law East Coast Firms where 9:30 is standard. You already piss away 2 hours of the day waiting for them to show up to work.
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Ben Callicoat
Jun 3, 2009 9:25 AM CST
How do they know they weren’t in court, or meeting with another lawyer or client off-site?
Some days I’m in the office at 8 a.m., others (like in the scenarios above) I may not get there until late afternoon.
But then I’m not a BigLaw associate.
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Pedro
Jun 3, 2009 11:31 AM CST
8:00 I am drinking coffee at Seattle’s Best Coffee and reading the morning paper. We work till midnights most nights. Why the F~!@#$ are we going to go in at 8:00?
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Anon
Jun 3, 2009 11:38 AM CST
9:30 has always been standard for New York firms.
When I was in house, I was in at 8 and out by 6. Now that I’m at a firm again, I’m in between 9 and 9:30, and out anywhere between 8 and 11.
It’s tougher during this downturn. You spend all day looking for work, then at 4:30 when you finally get some, you spend the next 6 hours doing it.
So there’s little point to getting in at 8; it won’t get you home any earlier.
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Rolls Canhardly
Jun 5, 2009 4:42 AM CST
All these crazy hours we lawyers work. If you are in at 8.00 and out between 8 pm - 11 pm, how much quality work is being produced. Dealing with the Biglaw model has demonstrated to me over and over again that mistakes are made, drafting is poor and the later in the day it’s done, the worse it becomes. Wake up! It is madenss and clients are notgoing to go on paying your prices when work is not only done poorly but passes through a number of hands before it is released.
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M. Lewis
Jun 5, 2009 6:34 AM CST
If everybody adjust their time shcedule to priorities in life, everybody will be in the same tune. If kids, elders, pets and yourself need quality time after work, all firms big or small will require intense and focus work between 8 am to 6 pm. After 6 there is no valid point to stay at work unless is an exception. Be sensible and think about it.
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PD
Jun 5, 2009 6:37 AM CST
I have to be in bed by 9pm so thankfully I’m inhouse. I leave at 5 or 6 and our start time is 9, but I usually get here areound 815 - 830.
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kasey
Jun 5, 2009 6:52 AM CST
I understand that 9:30 is typical in NYC, but when do courts usually convene there? I am in the southeast and most courts start their dockets at 9:00 here. So, my start time is 7:30/8:00 a.m. and I am finished by 5:30/6:00, unless there is a case or other matter which keeps me in the office longer. Those hours are typical in the region in which I work.
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YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehAW!
Jun 5, 2009 6:59 AM CST
” this is no substitute for in-office availability to clients and colleagues, Kerr writes.”
Are there tons of clients stopping by the office at 9:00 am to chat it up with 2nd year associates?
Lawyers are control freaks, that’s what this is about. I’ve had partners call my home at 9:45 am asking why I wasn’t at the office. Luckily for me, my wife is smart, and said “He’s in court covering YOUR docket call”
Yeah, dummies, there’s often a good reason why a LITIGATION ASSOCIATE isn’t in the office at 9:45 a.m—could be this little thing called ‘Court’.
I know most managing non-litigation partners have forgotten what the inside of a courtroom even looks like, but some of us actually get paid for work done when we’re not chained to a desk.
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MRH
Jun 5, 2009 7:02 AM CST
Is no one going to comment on the reference to this firm in the headline as “MoFo”!?!
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sue
Jun 5, 2009 7:02 AM CST
I have an afternoon coffee break at a local coffee shop every afternoon with friends around town. You can’t work at BigLaw without taking coffee breaks, running personal errands etc during the day. You would get burnt out if you worked all day long.
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sue
Jun 5, 2009 7:03 AM CST
#12 MoFo is what everyone calls them. No story there.
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Small Town Law
Jun 5, 2009 7:07 AM CST
Small town law: live in a beautiful place, make enough money for a good life, go to work 8-8:30 (or earlier), never leave later than 6 and usually just after 5. Enjoy a varied and often humorous practice, great, easygoing relationships with colleagues in town. I did one year in small-time Big Law, and this beats it hands down. (Sure, you-all will earn enough to buy a vacation home here, but will you ever see it?)
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associate
Jun 5, 2009 7:35 AM CST
Random observation - do these firms care about their internal memoranda automatically getting forwarded to abovethelaw and the like? I would think their IT people could easily see who was responsible for forwarding the e-mail. Given that big firms are laying people off right and left, the last thing I would want to do is risk getting myself in any sort of trouble. But, maybe the firm sees being featured on a blog as being free publicity.
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Corporate Counsel
Jun 5, 2009 7:53 AM CST
This entire debate just demonstrates how narrow-minded and selfish some partners at BigLaw can be. Individuals operate differently, based upon their internal biorhythmic clock; some people are morning people, and others are night people. I fall into the latter category, which means I generally arrive between 9 and 9:30 on most days. I leave after 6 p.m., however, and enjoy working later hours. I can bet those partners who want to perform jumping jacks at 8 a.m. (lol, most probably could not do ONE push up) leave earlier than the associates. But the larger question is this: isn’t the entire point of becoming an attorney to join a profession where one does not have to use timeclocks or work a set number of hours per day? Isn’t flexibility what having a career is all about?
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Solo
Jun 5, 2009 8:06 AM CST
I own my own firm and I work 7am - 7pm everyday but Sunday.
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A lawyer
Jun 5, 2009 8:08 AM CST
Bigger question: Why can’t the ABA find a headline story these days without reading Above the Law? I already read that site regularaly; I don’t need to do it twice.
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Kevin
Jun 5, 2009 8:14 AM CST
Agree with 19. ABA Journal has become an Above The Law copy.
That said - if they’re working until 10 or 11 at night what is wrong with coming in after 9:30?
I guess I’ll never know as I have a much lower paying job that allows me to not be just a picture on the wall at my home. My kids know who I am and we do stuff together. As far as I know, my wife is not hooking up with her tennis instructor because we can’t afford a tennis instructor and she sees me quite often.
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Recent Grad in Madison
Jun 5, 2009 8:14 AM CST
I wish the article gave more details about the need for the partner to send out the email. If people were constantly showing up late, I think it’s a justified email. If it was just his need to know where people are at 9:30 everyday, he must not have any work to do.
However, I have several friends who go to work at whatever time they want. They are supposed to be in by 8:30, but 9:00 is ok with them. Having served in the Army, I don’t understand how anyone can take their job that lightly. In the words of my Drill Sergeant, “if you’re not 15 minutes early, you’re late.”
One would think that in this economy no one needs to be reminded about being expendable. Apparently, MoFo has a work ethic problem (because I seriously doubt that this partner sent this email because one or two associates were showing up late - and, I’m sure they also know who is at court or with clients if not at the office).
Just my two (or three) bits!
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Eric in the Red
Jun 5, 2009 8:29 AM CST
Who cares how or when an attorney works, as long as they do an excellent job and get it done in a timely manner? Unfortunately, early in my career, I encountered control freaks such as the Mo-Fo who wish to dictate the insanity of their life styles upon others. In my case, it was a partner who believed that associates should always put in work on Saturdays and wanted the office staff to only use pink high-lighters. Despite (or maybe because) having four children, this partner slept in the office. I am greatful that the episode was extremely short-lived in my career. However, absent some objective evidence that the system is being abused, time restrictions are destructive for morale and irrational.
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Sheryl G
Jun 5, 2009 8:36 AM CST
10:15 or 11:00, work until 8-9 most days. I have insomnia and can’t fall asleep before 2 or 4 in the morning most nights. I do an hour of cleaning in the morning since I am too tired to do any in the evening. There is no point in showing up since I only earn $40,000 a year as an independent contractor, no benefits, all taxes, and there is no hope of improving my situation or ever getting another job. My work just supplements my savings and staves off homelessness a few years more.
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Andrew D
Jun 5, 2009 9:38 AM CST
It’s more standard policy from the 800lb gorilla. When are big firms going to realize they can save costs by virtualizing big parts of their operation? As clients squeeze fees and Gen Y-ers insist on better life-style, firms should move toward less facetime (and less overhead). Oh, how I’m glad they’ll never do it.
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hard worker but independent
Jun 5, 2009 9:45 AM CST
I think #15 is on the right track here. But some people are workaholics - that’s me! I work every single day, and sometimes in the middle of the night.
But I need to be independent.
Part of the problem with these big firsm and why everything costs so much money is that associates spend their time doing stupid wasteful work.
I am 100% efficient. Even with typing my own complaints, now with computers, I do it much faster than it used to be when I had wrote letters and gave them to a secretary.
The only thing I was time on is the telephone and that’s mainly because other lawyers are not as efficient as my office.
So - according to John Grisham, associates sleep in sleeping bags under their desks. If it only takes getting in by 9:30 to make 200,000 a year that’s pretty damned good.
When I worked in construction I started at 6:30 and worked until at least 6:00 M-S
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eric ok
Jun 5, 2009 9:50 AM CST
I function better at the end of the day when the office quiets down after people leave. Plus others in my life have work later. So why does it matter if i do my 9 or 10 hours starting at 10 AM?
Makes the office more bearable with some in early and some in late. I understand there is a window when you’d like people in the office, but outside that you’ve got blackberry’s and such.
Mofo’s guy is a control freak or a stubborn fool who thinks his lifestyle is the only proper lifestyle.
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Big Law Mike
Jun 5, 2009 10:34 AM CST
Man, I just woke up. What’s the hubbub?
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R
Jun 5, 2009 11:24 AM CST
So at Morrison Foerster they do jumping jacks in their lobby for an hour and a half every morning - from 8 to 9:30?
Wow, those ARE some tough MoFo’s.
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Ingo
Jun 5, 2009 12:34 PM CST
But can they still stay as late as they want?
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Bobbie NYU '82
Jun 5, 2009 1:29 PM CST
27 years since law school and “Mr. Kerr” is still doing jumping jacks at 8:00 am. I’m impressed…
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Kalifornia Arnold
Jun 5, 2009 4:50 PM CST
I didn’t go to law school (any size) to punch a timeclock—Any firm that watches the clock is only second best (gotta hand it to them) (If they were a criminal firm, could they be accused of killing time? (Not if the clock struck first)
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bg
Jun 5, 2009 5:28 PM CST
Come in an hour or two earlier and they can shave an hour or two off their quitting time, and still finish their work by the same time.
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B. McLeod
Jun 5, 2009 6:36 PM CST
I have to ask Arnold - Do they tick you off?
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Kalifornia Arnold
Jun 5, 2009 7:10 PM CST
Very ar-tick-u-late of you to ask
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Dan K.
Jun 5, 2009 7:33 PM CST
If a firm made it clear that I was “expected” to stay until between 8 and midnight every night, it better be because I’m coming in at 5pm and spent the day with my family.
What kind of person wants to work from 9am to midnight every day? I get to the office between 8-8:30 M-F, and have never left after 5:45, most days I leave before 5 if I come in at 8.
I got ONE call on a weekend, once, and I have never heard a partner be so apologetic as he was that day for disturbing me on a Sunday.
But then again, I am well-adjusted and realize that a JOB isn’t a LIFE.
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Tom
Jun 7, 2009 12:45 PM CST
I’m usually at the office between 7:30 and 8, and typically run out of gas around 6. Sometimes I’ll stay past 7 if I have a trial or something.
10 to 11 hours of hard work a day is more than enough. After that, your body and mind start to give out on you, you make mistakes, and you are less productive. All the more so if you try to do this days and weeks in a row, you’re just a zombie all day. If you’re in a trial or finishing a big merger, then sure, all limits are off- for a limited time.
This isn’t Ranger school or an endurance contest. You’ve got to work smart as well as hard.
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