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Once Courted by BigLaw, Lawyers Find Government Job Search Is Demoralizing

Posted Apr 20, 2009 6:11 AM CST
By Debra Cassens Weiss

Laid-off BigLaw lawyers are sending a flood of resumés to U.S. agencies, only to learn that advertised jobs aren’t available or computers are winnowing out their applications.

Lawyers sending their resumés “into the murky depths of Washington’s alphabet soup” are being stymied by hiring freezes and computer programs selecting applicants in the top 15 percent of their law school classes, no matter what the quality of their alma mater, applicants told Legal Times.

“Private bar lawyers used to getting fast-tracked into firms after cushy summer associate stints are now facing a mostly electronic process that doesn’t include recruiting lunches at The Palm,” the story reports.

Even agencies that are hiring, such as the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., are warning that it can take months to fill jobs. The FDIC expected to increase the number of lawyers in its legal division from 453 to 648.

Outplacement counselor Susan Manch, who works with laid-off lawyers, told Legal Times that about half her clients typically are interested in government jobs, but now nearly all are applying for U.S. positions. She helps applicants outsmart computer programs. Her advice: Make sure the language on your resumé mirrors the job posting language, and don’t underline or italicize information, since the initial computer screening program can’t read it.

Andrew Knepley, a lawyer who worked at the dissolved law firm Thacher Proffitt & Wood, complained about the computer screening in an interview with Legal Times. He said he applied for a job advertised by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, only to learn six weeks later that the position was not available. Another anonymous former associate reported filling out an application at the Patent and Trademark Office only to learn later of a hiring freeze.

Another associate from Thacher Proffitt, Kim Thien Le, has moved to Washington, D.C., in hopes of improving her chances for a government job after being rejected by seven government agencies.

“To be frank, the application process is demoralizing,” she told Legal Times. “I often feel as if my hard-wrought cover letters and [application] essays are being faxed and mailed directly into some kind of Schwarzschild wormhole in the space-time continuum.”

Comments

1.

B. McLeod
Apr 20, 2009 8:10 AM CST

I think it’s great that after years of going on about how lazy and stupid lawyers must be to work for goverment salaries, the BigLaw castaways are having to try out for those positions.  It is even better that they are being found wanting.  I’ll bet those rejection letters are demoralizing.  Not to worry, castaways, the same experience awaits you at corporate counsel offices, mid-size and small firms.  And, when you finally have to hang the shingle, experienced solos will be taking you to school.  Hooray.  I love reality.  It’s so real.

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2.

Hear that?
Apr 20, 2009 9:14 AM CST

That’s the sound of the FDIC servers burning to the ground after some spokesperson was dumb enough to say on record that they want to hire nearly two hundred attorneys.  I would imagine they will receive resumes from at least 100,000 unemployed attorneys this week.

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3.

Hardy Har, Esq.
Apr 20, 2009 9:18 AM CST

The funny thing is, that your hard-wrought cover letters and [application] essays ARE, in fact, being faxed and mailed directly into some kind of worm-hole.  It’s the worm-hole called the Federal Government, and its growing bigger and bigger and swallowing everything in its wake.  Soon it will consume the universe.

All joking aside, when I worked at a certain federal agency that collects money from taxpayers many years ago, the fax machine for incoming resumes was in a locked closet on the fourth floor of an old building on Pennsylvania Avenue.  Once a week, a part-time secretary would take all of the accumulated faxes, and put about four of them on someone’s desk, and the rest went into the recycling bin.  Often, there was not enough paper in the fax machine to last a day or two.

Good luck!

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4.

anon
Apr 20, 2009 9:54 AM CST

B. McLeod, usually I agree with your posts, but that was just plain misanthropic.

I hope you realize that real people are in dire straits as a result of these lay offs.  An unemployed lawyer friend of mine has been in the hospital for more than 2 weeks after a suicide attempt. 

But you apparently find such demoralization amusing.  Hooray for you.  Plenty of yucks out there in this economy.

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5.

B. McLeod
Apr 20, 2009 10:31 AM CST

Ah, no.  I do not hate mankind.  Actually, I am a great fan of mankind.  Sometimes, though, some subsets of the species can well stand to be taken down a peg.  Some people can this “Hubris,” some “Karma.”  It can bring an important set of lessons which, unfortunately, some people are simply incapable of grasping any other way.  These will be, in the long run, very useful and valuable lessons, which will make those castaways who survive them better people, with better lives.  Of course, people who give up and commit suicide will not make it to the better times, and hence, I do not advocate that approach.

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6.

Lindsay
Apr 20, 2009 11:36 AM CST

The problem, B. McLeod, is that, as with all things in life, Karma isn’t always fair.  It doesn’t always catch up to those it should, and sometimes it runs over innocent passersby.  If it were only all the people who deserved it in the bread lines, I might take more to your POV, but there are a lot of humble and good people who find themselves there instead.

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7.

NYC Consumer
Apr 20, 2009 11:50 AM CST

Perhaps the computer or recruiter is discarding the resumes and cover letters of all the Big Law refugees who have never done any public interest work in favor of those lawyers who have some public interest experience.  The last thing the government needs is lawyers who think they are “entitled” to the job because some big law firm was going to pay them a grossly inflated salary.

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8.

B. McLeod
Apr 20, 2009 12:26 PM CST

Bread lines are good.  I support soup kitchens also.  In such a place, a truly humble and good person can be content.  This understanding is a great gift, which even the lofty sometimes acquire, as life straightens their spirits for them.

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9.

A Recruiter
Apr 21, 2009 7:59 AM CST

I don’t blame law grads for taking Biglaw jobs to pay down their loans. Not one bit.

As a recruiter I have to say that the fact is that most Biglaw attorneys get very limited real legal experience in their first few years.

Many of these government jobs require getting stuck right to arguing motions, trials, administrative hearings, depos etc….

Biglaw grads with 2 to 3 years experience have not done any of these things. They chose the money and the chickens are now coming home to roost.

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10.

Mel Foster
Apr 21, 2009 8:31 AM CST

B. McLeod I hope you are a lawyer because your sensiblities are exactly what we need.

Karma is always fair, that’s what makes it “karma”.

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11.

JD to be
Apr 21, 2009 10:04 AM CST

For once, I agree with the rantings of B. McLeod.

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12.

Ethan S. Burger
Apr 24, 2009 4:21 AM CST

There are numerous issues at work:

1) Many of the government job descriptions outline backgrounds that are only obtainable within the government, hence since bureaucracies are pyramids, only people within the very same office or section could possibly have such experience.

2) Many government jobs require security clearances, which takes time.  Many persons with hiring authority prefer hiring people already within the government who get get their clearances “transferred” or can be cleared more quickly—of course, this works against lawyers applying from the private sector for whom the delays could be significant.

3) Government lawyers fear lawyers whom they term “overqualified,” will not stay in their jobs once hired.  This is both a form of age discrimination (i.e. a violation of the Age Discrimination in Employment Act (ADEA)) and numerous local human rights acts.  Michelle Singletary’s recent column in the Washington Post is full of good practical advice in this area of how to avoid seeming “too qualified.”

4) Often lawyers who work for the government are highly specialized and managers fear that those coming from the private sector will be bored in their new positions.

5) Many government lawyers assume that lawyers who work in the private sector are motivated by money and thus assume that former private sector lawyers think that government salaries are too low and will leave their new jobs at first opportunity.

6) Human resources personnel in government wrongly assume that lawyers are incapable of learning new areas of the law.  Again this is a manifestation of age discrimination and shows that such individuals do not know that lawyers working in the private sector have a variety of experiences and know many different areas of the law.

7) Far too often persons within the government treat civil service positions as property to be given to their friends and unless you know “the right people,” merit does not play a major role in the hiring process.

Of course, this can be seen as representing a reverse of the situation where for too many years former government lawyers with good work experience would not be able to land an interview with a large law firm unless they had a specialty like securities or has served as a AUSA were viewed as a potential rainmaker.  Thus, thus lawyers who had worked for law firms who frequently ignored the ADEA are now experiencing what those who had worked for the government experienced for decades.  Unfortunately, many recruiting specialists were their willing accomplices.

P.S.  I will send relevant materials to anyone who wants them.  Please write “ethansb@maxlaw.us.”

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13.

Steve
Apr 24, 2009 4:38 AM CST

I wonder if throngs of biglaw associates are really complaining about the process.  You know, many biglaw firms continually say their hiring in an area when they really aren’t.  Of course, they advertise for a position and if someone with rare talent comes along, they might hire them.  It’s a joke, really.

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14.

Steven
Apr 24, 2009 5:13 AM CST

Having worked in both Big Law and government for several years, my first thought is: If they think the government law job search is demoralizing, wait until they see what the government law job is like…

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15.

Debra VEOLI
Apr 24, 2009 5:35 AM CST

It is VERY demorelaizing to have guys in goverment snubbing US!  People that we would hardly ever hire are now turning the tabels on us when we need a job.

I don’t want to work in Goverment because there are a lot of type C personalities; they don’t work but don’t want you to work either.

It is NOT a good place if you want to get a job done right the first time. 

I asked Al and he also said this is true.

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16.

Alan
Apr 24, 2009 5:40 AM CST

Ethan is spot on with his numerous reasons.  I would add that one most also consider the number of “retiring” military lawyers who at age 42 or so leave the military with a 5 or 6 figure pension for life and go right into a civilian government job in the 6 figures.  Also note that outside of the beltway, the 6 figure government salary for no more than 40 hours of work a week far exceeds the salary/hour of most private sector lawyers, and without the private practice stress.

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17.

fendertweed
Apr 24, 2009 6:05 AM CST

at the federal agency I work at, when we infrequently look for an attorney for a vacancy we require specialized skills & experience that a lot of BigLaw associates and even partners may not have.

we find excellent candidates but the vast majority of BigLaw lawyers are not qualified for our positions.

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18.

Locallawyer
Apr 24, 2009 6:06 AM CST

Debra VEOLI’s comments illustrate the problem.  I have been a local prosecutor, small practice associate, solo, and now government counsel.  For many BigLaw vets, two things hurt them: the superiority complex/lack of respect for the people and work—many of whom are dedicated and much of which is very important and the inability to recognize and filter your superiority complex.  You think there is an “US.”  You are part of the BigLaw “US” when your name is over the door or when you have a controlling equity interest in the firm.  Everyone else is a hired gun, only at varying rates.  Instead of condescending to government lawyers and resenting their positions, figure out what they know and you don’t.  Network.  Do some public interest/pro bono work and see who you meet.  Take a CLE in an area you didn’t work in at your firm.  Write an article and get it published.  There are ways to work your way into a satisfying career path but you have to rely on more than the name of your law school and your law journal plaque.  But this requires humility and resourcefulness, something you don’t learn as a top 15% grad and BigLaw associate.  Now is a great time to develop that side of yourself.  It’s probably a bad idea to demean other lawyers, particularly if you misspell words as you do so.

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19.

RL
Apr 24, 2009 6:28 AM CST

I made the decision to go to the federal government a year ago, just before the s**t really started flying at the fan.  Every morning as I enter my office, I kiss the ratty old carpet and say a little prayer of thanks that I got in before the door slammed shut.

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20.

Chris D.
Apr 24, 2009 6:35 AM CST

“It is VERY demorelaizing to have guys in goverment snubbing US!  People that we would hardly ever hire are now turning the tabels on us when we need a job.”  It is this self-absorbed simple-mindedness that prevents you from getting a government job, it has nothing to do with your pedigree.

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21.

GovLawyer
Apr 24, 2009 6:37 AM CST

Having worked with government lawyers on both the federal and state level, I have found the majority of them are truly dedicated to 3 things: (1) public service, (2) quality work done in an efficient manner; and (3) life/work balance (whether this is raising a family or active involvement in a community organization).  While they probably do exist in places, I have yet to meet a government lawyer with a “Type C” personality.

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22.

Jay
Apr 24, 2009 6:40 AM CST

It is not just lawyers.  The entire process for hiring into government is a disaster.  Visit usajobs.gov and see for yourself.

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23.

RC
Apr 24, 2009 6:44 AM CST

As a government attorney who specifically took classes and did unpaid internship in law school to become a government attorney, I find Debra VEOLI’s comments rather insulting.  I only get paid for 40 hours a week not matter how many hours I work (always more than 40), and I don’t get any other kind of compensation for that overtime.  The other attorneys in my office have the same work ethic and are here because this is what they believe in, despite a much lower pay check than BigLaw types expect (and yes, I think they feel entitled).  I would suggest that before you take out your frustrations on others (especially those you think to seek a job from or with) you should step away from the ignorant sterotypes and learn some humility.  I was editor-in-chief of a law journal, research assistant to the dean of our law school and have a background that includes three other degrees in sciences.  Does that sound like someone who is lazy to you (i.e. your type “C”)?  I’ve also worked in private sector, and those attorneys aren’t perfect either.  Frankly, your attitude is horrendous and is likely what would keep you from getting a job.

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24.

PubliusFL
Apr 24, 2009 7:29 AM CST

Alan, you can get a 6-figure pension from the military if you’re a general with 30+ years of service.  Needless to say, that only applies to a tiny fraction of retirees, none of whom are in their early 40s.  Your 42-year-old retiring after 20 years is an O-4 or O-5 who will earn a pension of $40-45k, and probably won’t be a lawyer (since it’s rare for years in law school to count toward retirement).  Still a pretty good deal, but let’s be fair.

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25.

government lawyer
Apr 24, 2009 7:46 AM CST

All I can say is WOW to “Debra VEOLI.” 

Having been a government lawyer for my entire career BY CHOICE it’s somewhat mind boggling that Big Law attorneys really think that we all have type C personalities.  Perhaps VEOLI has yet to realize that life is short and for some of us, we seek balance over a bank account full of zeroes at the expense of our mental and physical health, familiy life, social life, etc. 

Everything isn’t for everyone, so to look down on someone who made a different choice than you (but the right choice for them) is what should make you feel DEMORALIZED. 

The bottom line is this - as a result of this economic crisis, the government has become extremely competitive—kudos for the government.  And unfortunately, for 2nd and 3rd year Big Law attorneys, long time government attorney (regardless of whether or not they went to a top tier school) will have an advantage over you because they tend to have the type of specialized experience required in Federal Agencies).  It is what it is.  And it’s really no different than when a Big Law firm only wants to hire someone with Big Law experience.  Get over yourself and your sense of entitlement…where you work in no way defines whether or not you are a quality attorney…I have run rings around some Big Law firm attorneys who have been out of law school much longer than I have—in fact, afterwards some have approached me and said “wow, I really under estimated you in the beginning.”  Further, I have had the pleasure of practicing law with some of the best qualified attorneys I know. 

Have I run across a few incompetent fools in the government?  Of course.  But make no mistake, my friends who are partners at some of these Big Law firms often tell me about the incomptent associates they ended up with on their projects (i.e., no attention to detail, no initiative, no backbone, yada, yada, yada) and how the only thing they will ever be good for is to assist on a case….I mean really, that’s why everyone at Big Law doesn’t make partner—and chances are if they laid you off YOU WERE NOT GOING TO MAKE PARTNER EITHER…so you are not as good as you think you are!

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26.

Kevin
Apr 24, 2009 7:54 AM CST

Good to see that us 2007/2008/2009 law school grads aren’t the only ones going through this.  Six weeks of waiting for a rejection letter.  I get ‘em from firms, I get ‘em from the Feds, I get ‘em from the State…  Welcome to my world guys, see you in the freakin’ bread line.  At least before I went to law school I was a machine maintenance tech.  Guess I can default on my loans and go back to doing that.

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27.

GOV
Apr 24, 2009 8:06 AM CST

Having been with the Federal Government out of law school for 8 years now, I can tell you that I have no regrets.  It is about compromise.  I will never be wealthy in terms of money, but the value in being home with my family on nights/weekends/holidays is far more important to me.  Government attorney’s are not any different in terms of their work ethic or their dedication to the law, but where they tend to be different is in there motiviation.  It’s not the bank account, but its in the service. 

I can’t even count the number of my law school classmates that went Big Law, that have called wanting to know if my office will be hiring. 

The Government provides a lot of benefits that the private sector can’t compete with.

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28.

U.S. Lawyer
Apr 24, 2009 8:09 AM CST

I have always been a government lawyer. In my 5 years of practice, I have met many other goc’t lawyers. Some good, some bad. If the gov’t has the opportunity to hire top lawyers from the private sector - how can that be a bad thing? Hey - I know that a few years ago, these same lawyers would have sneered at me for being “beneath them.” But times are hard, and the agencies as a whole may be the ones benefitting - if these attorneys raise the bar for gov’t attorneys everywhere, only good things will follow.

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29.

MJ
Apr 24, 2009 8:16 AM CST

“into some kind of Schwarzschild wormhole in the space-time continuum.”

Personally, I prefer the term “Einstein-Rosen bridge.”

I had the reverse problem during the recession of the early 90s when I was fresh out of law school. Because I wanted to practice patent law, BigLaw didn’t want to hire me because I didn’t have any experience. IP boutiques weren’t hiring until business picked up. So, I went to work for the Patent Office. After three years there, and experience under my belt, I easily got a job with an IP Bigtique and could finally start making dent in the ever-increasing student loan debt .

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30.

Steve N. Ark
Apr 24, 2009 8:33 AM CST

Take it easy on Debra VEOLI.  Sheesh.  She didn’t say all government lawyers were lazy.  And she noted right up front that Al said it was true anyway, so wtf?  It’s ok Deb, our BigLaw resumes entitle us to MUCH MORE than the passing fancy of government jobs during a depression B/t/w, nice job you government lawyers who were supposed to be like regulating our economy and stuff these last few years.  Bravo!  Give yourselves another round of applause you arrogant second-tier school geeks.  And o pleaze on the spelling police.  Luzerz!

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31.

B. McLeod
Apr 24, 2009 8:35 AM CST

Harvey BirdSmack is apparently too demoralized to post today.  But if he could be with us, he would undoubtedly reiterate his view that “biglaw rules.”  In his absence, I offer the contention (though dubious), simply as a matter of balance.  So, biglaw rules.

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32.

now cool
Apr 24, 2009 8:41 AM CST

I find it hard to feel sorry for these lawyers, having been the subject of their derision when I left my firm during the height of the economic boom to take a state government job. I was actually told that only idiots work for the government… by a person who now hopes I’ll hire him.

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33.

government lawyer
Apr 24, 2009 8:42 AM CST

Steve N. Ark—have you ever worked for a government agency?  There are 8 attorneys in my office…let me run down the list of law schools we went to for you…DUKE (1), HARVARD (1), GEORGETOWN (1), GEORGE WASHINGTON (2), AMERICAN (1), INDIANA UNIV. (1)...so you tell me, what’s the percentage of those of us who went to second-tier law schools???  Oh yeah and of the seven, ONLY TWO have prior Big Law firm experience (they fled the overrated scene YEARS AGO…the other 5, all life time government attorneys.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t blame anyone for working at a Big Law firm to pay off the student loans…but stop with dumb assumptions—it makes you seem unqualified to be an attorney ANYWHERE.

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34.

NBartell
Apr 24, 2009 8:45 AM CST

If they’re really having that much trouble finding work, then part of the problem almost certainly is that they aren’t looking in the right places. Just pointing the USAJobs search tool at all the jobs classified for attornies isn’t going to do it. There’s way too many unemployed attornies, and some of them are going to have experience in the field. On the other hand, claims adjudication positions are always opening up in the various agencies, and they love to get attornies, are less concerned about background, and get fewer atttorney applicants to compete with. It’s not as glamorous, but neither is losing your house.

The process is bad, but do be aware of how swamped the whole system is right now because of the economy, jobs that used to get 30 or 40 applicants are routinely getting 200 or 300, and all of those usually have to be screened by headquarters human resources, then forwarded to the hiring office, then filtered through, then hired.

Some tips I followed looking for work (and I’m in the gov now)- focus on applying for positions listed as having many vacancies, even if it might require a move. A lot of the time if they open up one position, it’s because they have someone in mind already, and the public posting is an afterthought, there’s no reason to pin your hopes on an ad if there’s every chance that the one person they want to hire is Jim down the hall.

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35.

Charis P
Apr 24, 2009 8:54 AM CST

Debra VEOLI and Steve N. Ark only prove B. McLeod’s point as they illustrate the stereotypical ignorance, arrogance and overinflated sense of entitlement of BigLaw associates.  Saying Al said it so it must be true is like saying your Jewish friend said all Jews are [insert negative stereotype here] so it must be true.

Oh and Steve, staff attorneys in government jobs can only work within the policies and agenda that the heads of their agencies give them.  Blaming them for working within the confines of the failed regulatory practices of the executive branch that was overseen by Bushies for the prior eight years is like blaming all of the law associates at dissolved BigLaw firms for the dissolution of the firms.

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36.

Thomas North
Apr 24, 2009 9:21 AM CST

I just want to say that I am enjoying reading all these comments! It’s good to see intelligence and eloquence on both sides of an issue for a change

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37.

SHN
Apr 24, 2009 9:28 AM CST

Ummm, you guys complaining about our friend Debra Veoli realize that she’s not a real person, right?

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38.

B. McLeod
Apr 24, 2009 9:51 AM CST

Oh now, # 37!  That’s like saying E. Barchevsky was not real.  Debra seems so much like a real large firm associate, I am wrestling with the question whether she is or is not what she purports to be.

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39.

EP
Apr 24, 2009 9:51 AM CST

Thanks to everyone for these posts. I am sending this article to my soon-to-be bacclaureate graduate daughter who is entertaining a legal education as opposed to looking for a job in this current economy. I have suggested she wait and pursue her passion first, because law school is always available later. Thanks for the reminder that difficulties exist everywhere for everyone. 

And, yes, I’m a government lawyer who has also been in private practice (but not BigLaw since law is my second career and I started in government in my late 40s).  The people I work with are intelligent, committed to their government service and (like post 21 mentioned) have a healthy work/life balance. 

So maybe we should all just settle down and act like a sisterhood or brotherhood and provide practical tips, that if the job candidate is disposed to listen to, may be of benefit? Good luck to those who are job-hunting. If you’re fortunate enough to obtain a government job, I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoy mine.  And, hey, I hope some good karma comes your way, too.

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40.

B. Lambert
Apr 24, 2009 10:09 AM CST

In response to B. McLeod’s posting #1:  I agree wholeheartedly that it is ironic that SOME of the people who once “ripped on” government lawyers are now looking for those jobs.  However, unless you are a lawyer (or law student, as in my case) you fail to understand the gravity of the situation.  The average college student graduates with $10k-30k worth of debt.  The average law student graduates with at least $80k in debt.  I will graduate with $150k in debt from law school ALONE.  Some of those loans are at high interest rates. 

So perhaps instead of slamming on those lawyers who can’t find jobs, and trying to demoralize them further, perhaps you should stop and think what it would be like if YOU had $150k in debt and couldn’t find a decent paying job.

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41.

Mikey
Apr 24, 2009 10:10 AM CST

Darn it, #37 just beat me to the punch - I have been laughing my ass off at all the righteous indignation directed at “Debra VEOLI” from the gov’t “attornies” who’s cent’s of humer is obviously as lacking as there grammer and spelling capabilities.

One thing stated (#27) that sure stands out, though: “The Government provides a lot of benefits that the private sector can’t compete with.”  Umm, no kidding.  Why do you think we have about 1.7 gazillion dollars of national debt?

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42.

The End
Apr 24, 2009 10:11 AM CST

You’d think lawyers would have some sense of when their chains are being pulled.

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43.

B. McLeod
Apr 24, 2009 10:37 AM CST

Well, truly there is considerable skill involved with the “Debra Veoli” posts.  Unlike such characters as the infrequently-seen “Barrister,” who give away their lay status in virtually every post, Ms. Veoli either really is a BigLaw “associate” or at least understands the role well enough to be taken for one by most of the attorneys on this site.  This being so, does it really matter if she is or isn’t?  It’s a great send-up either way.

Oh, and (on an unrelated note) for # 40, the $150K in debt and no job would never be me, because I don’t borrow money I can’t pay back.  If you don’t have it, don’t spend it.  That’s how this country used to be, back in the good old days.

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44.

Leo
Apr 24, 2009 10:51 AM CST

I agree with several of the comments here.  The government is not an easy place to get into and some agencies require academic credentials as strong as big firms.  There are many government lawyers committed to the mission of their agencies, and they expect applicants to have the same commitment.  They may not want to hire someone who is just looking for a job and doesn’t care about the public.

However, there are also many government lawyers who use their agencies to get jobs in big law (DOJ and SEC attorneys).  These lawyers are no better, morally speaking, than those already in big law.  Look at many of the recent regulatory failures.  These were not just the result of lax regulations; they were also the result of lax regulators who use the revolving door to benefit themselves.  Furthermore, some mentioned here that they went into the government, in part, because of the “lifestyle.”  If they didn’t have to work so many in hours in the private sector, then they probably would not have entered government practice.

My point is that it would be nice to see more lawyers entering public service, like other civil servants, who actually care about the public and are not just taking the job because it’s an easier lifestyle that still provides a six figure salary.

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45.

Laura
Apr 24, 2009 11:05 AM CST

Having worked in both the private and government sectors, I can say that (1) politics play a role in both sectors, (2) knowing people helps you get a job in both sectors, (3) lawyers from both sectors are suspicious of outsiders and their motivations, (4) you have to work hard to get a good job in either sector, and (5) a lot of the time, getting hired is a game of luck and circumstances.  That being said, I have been hired for multiple government positions (both federal and state) without political or personal connections. 

One word of advice—if you have to fill out the federal online form, do it (and follow other people’s advice above about how to trick the computer), but if at all possible, also snail mail a cover letter, resume, transcript, writing sample package.  At least where I worked, the whole package went to the hiring attorneys, and those who sent in standard resumes in addition to the online applications stood out.

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46.

S.N. Ark
Apr 24, 2009 11:31 AM CST

Hey governmentlawyer, have you ever checked out government mule?  They kick ass—no pun intended!  C y’all - if you’re in the northeast, enjoy the sweeet weekend!  Lates.

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47.

public servant
Apr 24, 2009 11:52 AM CST

I’m just finishing up at a top tier school. I’m an older student.

Last year, at the urging of a friend who said, “What do you have to loose?” I went through the absolutely humiliating exercise of “early interview week” on campus (all the BIGLAW firms come sniffing around for a week-long speed-dating style interview fest). I had great interviews with about 18 firms. Not one called me back. And it’s not my grades; they never even asked to see my grades.

It was clear that I simply didn’t fit the profile. Yes, I’m articulate, smart, (tall, good lookin’ in a suit(!), poised, etc.), but I’m not in it for the money. I’ve been working in the human rights and humanitarian relief field for nearly 20 years. So, while the BIGLAW recruiters were anxious to hear all about the time I spent in Iraq, they didn’t want me sitting next to them in their little cubicle. It’s the first time in my life that I’ve felt discriminated against – in a systemic fashion (that is, by the entire “BIG LAW system”).

Other than early interview week and for reasons not relevant here, I’ve done only one other thing to look for a job during the last 18 months: I dropped my resume into a government jobs database last fall. I received a call from a major government agency three weeks ago. They hired me on the spot. Mind you, I’ve gone to a top tier school, but I’m not in the top 10% of my class, more like the top 10% of the middle third. They didn’t ask to see my grades. They just looked at my resume and talked to me.

When someone looks at my resume and talks to me, s/he knows immediately who I am and what my values are. S/he sees that I’ve been dedicated to public service all my life and that I work hard for the public good, no matter how much I’m paid. I left a job in the non-profit sector making $115K+ to take this new government legal job at a Grade 13, Step 1 (about $87K). I did it because I want to work now as a lawyer and I want to work in the government sector for a bit.

The person who recruited me confirmed that his office is receiving literally hundreds of resumes for jobs that used to attract only a few dozen candidates. Government doesn’t want to hire the BIGLAW refugees because they know that BIGLAW refugees will leave as soon as the economy takes a turn for the better. Government fears not only that the BIGLAW refugees will turn and run once the DOW hits 10,000 again, but also that they will, literally, all run during the same week.

Government doesn’t want to hire BIGLAW refugees; they want to hire someone like me, someone who has worked with REAL refugees (in some pretty dicey war zones) for much of his life. Why? Because I’m a public servant and being a public servant is what working for government is all about. I am concerned for the public welfare, and work my ass off everyday to make the world a better place.

Instead of mocking one another, taunting those who have and don’t have jobs at the moment, or who chose service and family over status and money, can we not shift the conversation to something else entirely:

What does it mean to serve the public good? What are the qualities you would look for in a government employee? Whom would you hire right now, if you were running the HR office at State or Labor or Treasury or Health and Human Services? Whom do you want running your government and its agencies?

If the person you would want is less like you, and more like me, then press cancel on the fax machine. Don’t scramble for a government job simply because you’re lost and desperate. What our government needs right now is people who care about our country and our world. If you care only about your own little world, government is not the place for you, nor is the nonprofit sector.

That’s not to say there is no place for you. But you’re going to have to get creative, figure out what’s important to you, cut your expenses, and maybe, wait things out a bit.

But stop flooding government and nonprofit fax machines with your resumes if you’re not prepared to do what those of us in the government and nonprofit sector do, sacrifice for the greater common good.

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48.

Leo
Apr 24, 2009 11:57 AM CST

It’s unfortunate that there are not more attorneys, and more government attorneys, like the last poster, public servant.

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49.

Older Guy
Apr 24, 2009 12:01 PM CST

public servant, you’re a good man.

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50.

B. McLeod
Apr 24, 2009 12:45 PM CST

Indeed.  For a moment there, I could almost hear the fife and drum in the background, as with the sometimes very moving and patriotic Oliver Wendall Douglas comments on episodes of “Green Acres.”  I would probably hire the guy too.  Unfortunately, more of the BigLaw refugees are along the lines of Mr. Haney, Mr. Kimball or (in some cases) Arnold, and are little able to conceal that they consider the small firm, government and non-profit jobs they are applying for to be unworthy of their imagined talents.

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