Posner Targets Lawyer’s Remark about Wives and Clothes Dryers (Take Our Poll)

J.D.
Oct 30, 2008 10:15 AM CST

GALLUP POLL (April 2008)—“Married couples in America today maintain a strong and traditional division of labor, with 68% of married adults saying the wife does the laundry, and 57% saying the husband does the yard work.”

http://www.gallup.com/poll/106249/Wives-Still-Laundry-Men-Yard-Work.aspx

Al Tidom
Oct 30, 2008 9:25 PM CST

Comment removed by moderator.

b
Oct 31, 2008 5:32 AM CST

Sounds like something a plaintiff-side lawyer might say.

r
Oct 31, 2008 5:42 AM CST

Ellen’s comment in #3 expresses the unvarnished truth about women: above all, they covet marriage. Bill—You and I are considered the Flintstones by these people.  But watch out buddy, I had a wife with a master’s degree who was a “stay-at-home mom” for 24 years. She alwayssaid it was her “dream to do this because her mother didn’t do anything for her as a child.  So I worked day and night to make it happen.  Then when the marriage was over, she sued for and got $1500 in PERMANENT alimony on the theory that she had not worked for 24 years!!.  So, the moral of the story is that some of these women want it both ways.  They want to be “stay-at-home -moms” but they want to collect alimony at the end because they haven’t worked!!  So watch out.  It can be a trap to make a woman’s dream come true!!.

Eric
Oct 31, 2008 5:57 AM CST

Laundry, dishes, grass cutting?  That’s why we had children!

KC Partner
Oct 31, 2008 6:41 AM CST

Bill and r have it right.  If the marriage breaks along traditional lines—hubby out making the money, wife stays home—the vast majority of the house work should be done by the wife.  It is not the husband’s job to do both his day job, then have a part time job at night; if wife wants to stay home, she needs to do the whole job (preferably during the regular work day, so both can enjoy their evenings with kids and each other).  No excuses—husband doesn’t get to take regular days off to go work out, shopping with friends, vegetate and watch Oprah, or other personal enjoyment.

Posner twisted the lawyer’s remark into something unduly sexist, when he was simply suggesting one might look to an authority on the subject.  The reality is, more women stay home than men—particularly wives of lawyers and judges.  Posner seizing on the remark actually suggests that he somehow views doing laundry as demeaning.  The bigger problem was the lawyer inappropriately was asking the bench to look to information outside the record (i.e., Your Honors, ask your wives ...).

Donald
Oct 31, 2008 7:17 AM CST

Here’s another vote in support of bill and r.  I bring home the bacon and do the laundry and scrub the toilets and mow the grass… you get the picture.  She watches the kids (when they aren’t in school), Oprah, eats bon bons, and creates more animosity than she realizes.  Her masters from G’town isn’t worth much when all she can do is sit on her rear all day and have the nerve to complain about how hard he day’s been.  Can’t wait for those kids to grow and leave, cuz I’ll be right behind them.

sct
Oct 31, 2008 7:41 AM CST

A marriage can only work if there is mutual respect… Most of the Mr. Cleavers on this comment section clearly don’t respect their wives. It’s only a matter of time, guys, before you will be signing those alimony checks. Sounds like a lot of bruised egos. If you learn to show a little appreciation, you might get some back. I recommend the book “Love and Respect” for both spouses.

Brian
Oct 31, 2008 7:50 AM CST

I do all the laundry in our house, as well as all the cooking, because I am better at it.

Ken More, Esq., Washer & Dryer. P.C.
Oct 31, 2008 8:56 AM CST

Posner artificially assumed Krislov’s query to the all male panel applied to the entire male gender.  He did this to discredit Krislov as a sexist, but has Posner met his burden of proof?  I would submit that Krislov’s sexist inclinations, if any, are proportional to the laundromatic proclivities of this august panel of Article III judges and their spousal counterparts.  On remand, I would instruct the panel and their spouses to give evidence supporting the nature and extent of their knowledge of, inter alia: cotton, permanent press, wool, silk rayon and polyester fabrics; wrinkle free vs. no iron shirts; sock matching technique; ironing and steam setting; post dryer fluffing; detergent choice; fabric softening; prewash pocket inspection; lint filter cleaning regimen; make, model and year of washer and/ or dryer; water temperature selection and relationship to fabric and/or stain(s) thereon, and whether they agree or disagree that Tide was designed with mothers in mind to get out the stains kids get into.

Andy the lawyer
Oct 31, 2008 9:38 AM CST

Bill bills over 240 hours per month?  Perhaps.  But I seriously doubt it’s for 240 hours per month of actual quality work, unless he’s got it down to 8 hours per day, every single day of the year, without exception.  How likely is that?

Dawn
Oct 31, 2008 10:05 AM CST

My husband and I both work A LOT. I am a solo practitioner and my husband manages several restaurants. We both do laundry, we both cook, we both clean—whatever needs to be done. We view it more as a cooperative effort.

Although, in response to #5, I would love to have a nice little wife at home to do all the housekeeping and laundry and cooking. But alas, my husband will not consent to a lazy life of laundry and bon-tons and oprah.

Traditional Single Male
Oct 31, 2008 10:53 AM CST

I agree with Bill’s comment.  As a single guy, I don’t do my own laundry, the nice lady at the laundrymat does it for me, and I always smile and thank her graciously.  At 85 cents per pound, it’s cheaper to have her do it for me and I don’t have to waste time on domestic chores.  I also don’t cook, but although my frig is well stocked with bottled water and beer, I do dig into my Captain Crunch and Wheaties boxes for a nice din-din at least twice a week.  On other nights I eat out.  Somehow I’ve managed to control my weight this way.  Growing up in a family with two boys and two girls, the girls did all the work inside, and the boys did all the work outside.  I didn’t like the arrangement then (hated taking out the trash and pulling weeds), but appreciate my parents’ insight today because now I cannot cook, clean, or do hardly any domestic chores.  Thank goodness for dry cleaners, laundrymats, and restaurants, which were created, I’m certain now, by single guys like I.

MoiKiddingVous
Oct 31, 2008 10:56 AM CST

I went to law school so I could afford to hire a maid to do my laundry, my cooking, my cleaning.  She is very nice, enjoys being in the country, and looks after me. If I grow weary of her I will fire her and hire another.  I do not need to talk to her, care whether she is unhappy, or feels fat! So much better than being married!

<snapping out of my daydream> ahem, right…as in I wish! And I hope the wife does not get wind of this! Sorry hon and thanks for doing the dishes even though it was my turn!

David E.
Oct 31, 2008 11:38 AM CST

I am married, but I prefer to wash my own clothes.  Oftentimes I do the whole family’s laundry.  Anything that will limit “creative” consumer plaintiff actions in the Seventh Circuit is welcome.

PCD
Oct 31, 2008 12:16 PM CST

“people buy stainless steel clothes dryers to avoid rust stains, rather than to impress their neighbors”

Ummmm, no, they buy stainless steel to impress their neighbors. 

“I’m like the last one to suggest that men don’t do laundry,” Krislov said.

Are you like the last one to like suggest that?  Like really?  Like totally professional…

jkb
Oct 31, 2008 1:44 PM CST

Will and Kristy,
The reasons women make less than men for doing the “same job” can be complicated.  Sometimes, the definition of “same” is an issue.  However, my law school experience offered a possible explanation—lower expectations.
In my law chool professional responsibility class each student was asked to project their salary out for 10 years and turn the written expectations into the professor.  This was not an assignment that allowed for collabrative effort.  Nevertheless, collectively, the expectations of the women in the class for their salary 10 years out of school were only 80% of what the men in the class expected to make.  There was a follow up argument/discussion between women in the class about the effect of child birth and child rearing on careers and income.  It occured to me at the time (1990) that the men weren’t participating in the discussion/argument and that the men hadn’t assumed that having children would effect their future income.

Charles Young
Nov 2, 2008 6:46 AM CST

Having read all of the posts, I think it is clear that the women on the site do not respect the men who do not respect their women.  If only men would respect women, women would respect the men and we wouldn’t have anything to write about.

W. Boss
Nov 2, 2008 6:46 PM CST

Heterosexist?  WTF?  Does this mean that women are not into it?

mike
Nov 3, 2008 1:30 PM CST

@Pumpkin: any objections to the more typical situation in which the sexes are reversed (male breadwinner) and the man speaks about his life as you are speaking about yours?  Or would that be wrong even as you crow about your situation?

r
Nov 5, 2008 1:11 PM CST

Men need to learn to do these things for themselves. If they did, they wouldn’t need a woman to do it for them.  Most men get married because their mommies did everything for them and when they get older they need a new mommy to do the dirty work.  Unfortuntately, this plays right into the hands of women who exploit men for their domestic incompetence in order to secure a husband. They quickly find out what the man’s needs are, supply them and thus establish their indispensability to him just like a drug pusher on a street corner.  The man marries the women because he needs the services she provides and the “home life” he is unable to provide for himself.  The wife marries because her “powerbase” and security is established when the man becomes dependent upon the services she renders. This symbiotic relationship usually leads to mutual resentment, the man’s abdication of all authority, the woman’s continuing usurpation of his authority and finally a merciful end to it all with a divorce.  I have no sympathy for these men.  They get what they deserve.  It is all written in the Bible tale of Samson and Delilah.  Amercian men have become weaklings who are not deserving of respect by women because they bring little or nothing to the table except their needs.  They need to grow up and stop being little boys.