Too Many Women Lawyers are Like Oz’s Dorothy, Partner Says

MonkeyC
Jul 8, 2009 8:36 AM CST

Please.  Every queen knows that Dorothy just wanted to get home because there is no place like home.  This analogy is so inapt and tortured it’s pathetic.  And publishing it without challenging a basic factual inaccuracy is unprofessional.

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tronochick
Jul 8, 2009 9:05 AM CST

this piece makes absolutely no sense. i’m so confused right now.

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Sick of women moaning
Jul 8, 2009 9:16 AM CST

I don’t know how anyone, male or female, can expect to have a balanced life with Biglaw hours. You know what you are getting into.

You want the big pay check…..you pay the price. If you want to spend more time with your problem you can go in house, go midlaw, go state or federal or solo…...but you would probably make less money.  No, ladies, you can’t have it all.

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B. McLeod
Jul 8, 2009 9:27 AM CST

Too many partners are like the Scarecrow.

For those of us actually familiar with the work in question, Dorothy got what she wanted, which was to go home.  Many, many Horrick Errington “associates” must feel the same way, but lack the ruby slippers.

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Mike
Jul 8, 2009 9:35 AM CST

translation - kiss alot of ass

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Liz
Jul 8, 2009 10:19 AM CST

Um, Mike,

I’m sorry you feel that someone from your school who is better looking than you has an advantagein hiring. Honestly though, you’re just wrong. Look around you. Where in the hell do you work? What happened to the overtly feminine women at your school? Did they really have some huge advantage? Or did they just put up with a lot of crap from people who assumed a well-groomed woman HAD to be dumb?

Also, this article is ridiculous. Dorothy didn’t ask for credit? Has anyone else ever heard the comments about women who were “too pushy” or “too in your face” or, as Mike pointed out, “only hired for their looks?”

Dorothy got what she wanted without being ridiculed and harassed. She played the game right.

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Liz
Jul 8, 2009 11:09 AM CST

ONE woman lateraled to a better job after less than two years? And that justifies drawing conclusions about “how she got the job” and “big law credentials for attractive women?”

How about all the pudgy white guys from the middle of the pack who were picked up by mid-law firms, while the partners patted us girls on the head and said things like, “I would hire a woman but I need someone who will play golf,” aand, “I just find women don’t work as hard. YOU know what I mean…” (with a significant look at my stomach, where presumably an infant was about to pop any minute now…)
As a man in law school you have so many advantages that you don’t even realize. You perpetuate stereotypes against women in every other sentence - stereotypes that we have to fight every single day. And you still think you got screwed and everyone else has it easier?

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Liz
Jul 8, 2009 11:55 AM CST

I don’t think you have proved it happens. It’s more likely, and I’ve seen this happen with both sexes, that someone who showed no real zeal for law school turned out to be a great professional networker. I know an unattractive woman who was unemployed for 18 months after law school, worked at a municipal government office for 16 months, and then lateraled to the biggest firm in the city, where she made partner two years ahead of schedule.

If women without the “right” credentials were hired for prominent positions on a regular basis, then why are only 12% of all partners women? If we could all just get promoted any time we had a makeover, don’t you think more of us would have gone higher? Wouldn’t every law firms look book be awash in fake boobs, heavy mascara, and hair extensions?

You’re being sexist and you have no basis for your claims that this happens “all the time and everyone knows it.” I’m sorry your legal career hasn’t gone as far as you wanted it, but trust me, you’re not the only one.

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Liz
Jul 8, 2009 12:31 PM CST

It’s not an “inconvenient truth” if you have nothing but sexist assumptions to back it up.

Besides, especially given your comments about “nasty word for it” and “we all know how women in big law get promoted,” your story could just as easily be used to justify a completely different explanation using the same set of facts.

Maybe someone with a real talent for law was held back by a sexist law school environment? Maybe the only reason someone who turned out to be a talented lawyer didn’t make law review or moot court or top 20% in school was because her classmates and professors assumed she was an unqualified ditz?

Or maybe she just didn’t like having to go to class with people who assume “everyone knows” that unqualified women are hired and promoted “all the time?” Everyone doesn’t know that because if it happened “all the time” you wouldn’t be stuck with, “That one time a girl with my qualifications got a better job and I didn’t and it must have been because she was pretty.”

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B. McLeod
Jul 8, 2009 12:51 PM CST

And cows have little calves, and cats have little kittens (and it’s much easier that way).

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Liz
Jul 8, 2009 1:23 PM CST

“Yeah sure, with blind marking of exams and law review writing where you are assigned a number so the marker doesn’t know who you are or your sex.”

Women are less successful in law school than men, and minorities are less successful than the overall population. Some people see this as evidence of inferiority. Some people see this as evidence that it’s harder to succeed in a class full of people making sweeping generalizations about whatever category you fit into.

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KJ
Jul 10, 2009 4:48 AM CST

Wow! I’m in shock. So, I will apply a quote from Ghandi: “Be the change you want to see in the world.”  Take what you wish from that, analyze it, curse it, and move on. Life’s way too short to be arguing about things like this.  If you don’t like what big firms do, when you have the chance to change it be different, don’t perpetuate it.  As a female and a fresh grad in an economy that for all intents and purposes sucks to know end it is shocking to read comments where people basically eat each other alive. Again, if you don’t like what is going on make big firms accountable.  If you did not get into a big firm, then thank God, because it means you can at least be a human again. If you got into a big firm, congrats welcome to Robotville. I have a ton of strikes against me and know it, but so what.  I am female - still of child rearing age, so apparently that will make some men and by the way women,  in the profession think twice about giving me a job; because they apparently were born and raised by wolves not women or better yet they were spawned by robots. So OMG it is a shocker that women have babies.  I am a minority- so apparently I am going to scream bloody murder and use the race card every time things don’t go my way, because apparently I am a complete moron and because of the two things mentioned above I barely meet the standards of beauty set by society. Finally, I did not come from a family of lawyers, have no connections and was not on law review or in moot or have sweeping credentials- so apparently those are the only possible ways for me to be a amazing attorney.  Seriously. If that is the case maybe I should just go to sleep and forget everything.  Since I have an A type personality I don’t imagine that is going to happen.  Further, I am the change that I want to see in the world because clients come in all shapes, sizes and colors and if I am lucky some of them can pay. The author of the article had a message and at first I had no idea what it was because, as everyone mentioned earlier, her analogy sucks.  I think I got it now, I don’t agree it’s the best way, so I will take her commentary with a grain of salt and move on. Move on people it’s 2009, not 1950.

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AB
Jul 10, 2009 7:00 AM CST

I can’t believe this was published.  Dorothy asked for what she really wanted, which was to go home.  It’s failing to ask for what she wanted rather than to request “credit” or “recognition”?  Okay…..I guess I will remain a failure and continue to ask for, and receive, the things I really want.

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Houston Lawyer
Jul 10, 2009 7:17 AM CST

LOL!  When I saw the headline, my first thought was that it meant that too many women lawyers want to work from home or stay home.  This woman clearly missed the end of the movie - “There’s no place like home.  There’s no place like home.”  I act like Dorothy most days, counting the hours until I can get out of here and go home!  LOL!

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lawsucks
Jul 10, 2009 7:22 AM CST

Stupidest analogy EVER.

Maybe female lawyers should just get back in the kitchen.

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Houston Lawyer
Jul 10, 2009 7:29 AM CST

Wow!  I just read the comment about women being less successful in law school.  Where did that false statistic come from?  I’m sure I’ve seen statistics showing that women do just as well, if not better, than men in law school.  I seem to recall that out of the top 10 people in my law school class, at least 6 or more of them were women (including me).  Women cannot whine about not doing as well in law school because there is some vast white male conspiracy - if you can read, write and reason well, you will do well in law school.  Frankly, it shouldn’t be that difficult for anyone.  It’s not rocket science.

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Leigh
Jul 10, 2009 7:37 AM CST

Ummmm.  Dorothy DID ask the wizard for something.  To go home.  Who publishes something like this?

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BigLaw Woman Lawyer
Jul 10, 2009 7:47 AM CST

Wow, I’m surprised by all of the negative reaction to this article.  I found it to be right on target.  After practicing law for twenty years, I can say from experience that as a general rule (of course there are always exceptions) women usually work harder, get more done, and seek less credit than their male counterparts.  I thought the article was a good reminder that we need to be our own advocates.

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Disgusted
Jul 10, 2009 7:53 AM CST

This is total crap - how this partner can make this suggestion with a straight face is beyond me. Women “asking for things” is not at all well received. As an associate in Big Law (at a firm that has a better than average reputation for treatment of women), I have observed that the rules that applied on the playground, in high school and in college apply equally here - smart, assertive women are viewed as “witch-y” (a nod to ABA’s comment policy). Women simply cannot “act like men” - in Big Law or anywhere else. 

For those who might dismiss me as one of the women who “want it all” (read: more than they deserve), I exceed the firm’s billable requirement by 600+ hours each of the last three years.

#5 (“sick of women moaning”) - you disgust me most of all)

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Patrick
Jul 10, 2009 7:55 AM CST

To: Patricia Gillette
Uh, moron; Dorothy asked to friggin go home.  Might this also be why too many of your lawyers are like her?

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Way Out West
Jul 10, 2009 8:01 AM CST

Gillette does nothing to help her “cause” with her ridiculus and incorrect analogy.  In fact, I think it harms it, as it misses the boat on so many levels.  Her points may make sense, but the analogy is so wrong it makes the entire article look stupid (BTW - networking is helpful - really?? Now, there’s a news flash).  Lets hope she reads these comments and next time chooses a better-placed anaolgy to make her point.  Thanks for nothing, Patricia.

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Munchkin
Jul 10, 2009 8:07 AM CST

All you Munchkins get back to work! The wicked witch is dead!  The author is forgetting a valuable point however, it was the good witch that helped Dorothy (follow the yellow brck road and dont take off your slippers) and it was Toto that showed that OZ was a fraud (remember the curtain scence?). So in essence for more women to succeed, they need more successful role models to guide them in the Law Firm world, because at the end Oz is a fraud and Dorothy already had the power . . .it was all in her mind ( click the shoes 3xs) and repeat I wish I were partner, I wish I were partner

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EJ
Jul 10, 2009 8:23 AM CST

I am so sick of hearing that it’s women’s own fault if we don’t advance in our careers as quickly as and to the levels that men do. Because obviously, there’s absolutely no systemic bias against women. None at all.

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MSW
Jul 10, 2009 8:55 AM CST

Has anyone taken a look at the legal profession lately?  Seems like Dorothy had the right idea.  Why should women or men want to get the best seat on a sinking ship.  We need to rethink this profession, the whole concept of billable hours and long-long days away from familiies and friends.  What sane woman would sign up for that and ask, in the words of Oliver Twist “I wants more, please.”  What we all need to demand is more work-life balance.

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Jennifer
Jul 10, 2009 9:02 AM CST

I like the Dorothy-analogy because it’s fertile ground for jokes - some of which were mentioned above and also the notion that she just wanted to go home, which I’m sure many of us, men included, think all the time when we’re trudging away.  But the article makes a valuable point if for no other reason that, at bonus time, 75% of the time, women will hear their reviews and accept their bonus without further discussion, whereas men more often speak out about fact that they want more and why they should get it.  Unfortunately, there are other aspects to the work environment often too subtle to notice that cut against this failure to speak up as well.  So remember, ladies, ask for more $!  You’re more than worth it!!!

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