Law Firms
Triple Bad News for Law Students: Three Firms Ax Summer Associate Programs
Posted Jul 20, 2009 12:28 PM CST
By Debra Cassens Weiss
Law students got some bad news from their career services offices today: Three law firms have canceled their 2010 summer associate programs.
Above the Law had the report, based on e-mail announcements forwarded to the blog from students at two law schools. The law firms canceling the programs are Ballard Spahr Andrews & Ingersoll, Squire Sanders and Thompson Hine, according to the report.
Two e-mails sent to students at Duke Law School carried news of the canceled summer programs at Thompson Hine and Squire Sanders, Above the Law says. One e-mail said Squire Sanders “will re-evaluate their summer needs this spring,” but the firm is currently canceling student interviews.
The Duke e-mail quoted Thompson Hine as saying its recruiting needs for the next cycle have already been met, and it won’t be participating in on-campus interviews or collecting resumés.
An e-mail to students sent by the University of Pennsylvania Law School says Ballard Spahr “will not have a 2010 summer program and, as such, has canceled on campus interviews.”
Ballard Spahr later released this statement to the ABA Journal. "In view of our obligation to manage our firm in a responsible way, we have decided not to have a summer associates program in 2010. We are very pleased to have a new class of associates that will join us in the fall of 2010 and will make offers to this year’s summer associates to start in 2011. It would be unfair to have a summer associates program next year in light of the people to whom we have made commitments. If there are exceptional needs in a non-Philadelphia office, we will consider appropriate hires."
Another law firm, Morgan Lewis & Bockius, announced cancellation of its summer associate program last week.
Updated at 7:20 p.m. to include statement from Ballard Spahr.
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Comments
B. McLeod
Jul 20, 2009 4:47 PM CST
They’ve ta’en their debt load in their hands,
And tae the doors they’ve gane,
Ah, lang they wept and sair they called,
But answer got they nane.
“O open your doors Big Law tae me,
O open and let me in,”
But the wind blaws cauld through their ragged coats,
And the rain drips from their chins.
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sarah
Jul 21, 2009 6:05 AM CST
it would be worse for law students if if restaurants like Denny’s closed or if schools stopped hiring substitute teachers. That is where most law school grads wind up working after getting out of law school.
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B. McLeod
Jul 21, 2009 6:24 AM CST
Some of them, at least. Tipping at least 15% at Denny’s has become a matter of professional courtesy.
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unperson
Jul 21, 2009 10:29 AM CST
some people don;t even tip at restaurants. Mr Pink for example….
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Chubbz DeLinquente
Jul 21, 2009 2:03 PM CST
LMAO Sarah that is dead balls on accurate - more law schools opening up each year as employment prospects decline - WTF is up with that??
McLeod - nice channelling o Robbie Burns there, laddie
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Pedro
Jul 21, 2009 3:23 PM CST
Don’t worry about student loans. Obama is going to make college education free and offer loan forgiveness to everyone before the end of his term.
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Houston Lawyer
Jul 22, 2009 7:00 AM CST
Perhaps some law schools will go out of business, so this may be a good thing. Also, It seems that law schools might want to consider adding some practical training to their curricula that would actually be better than a summer program and/or the first couple of years at a law firm. Then, if and when the economy improves, again, law firms can just hire associates straight out of law school without having to have a summer program, which is just a prolonged “get to know you” period, anyway.
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tim
Jul 24, 2009 7:11 AM CST
We need more law schools
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Bar Studier
Jul 24, 2009 7:44 AM CST
I wonder how many of these firms could save their summer programs if the partners agreed to take a slight salary cut?
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LegalMarketingGuy
Jul 24, 2009 8:26 AM CST
Bar Studier, I’ve heard this comment many times now. At every firm I am aware of, the partners have already taken paycuts—many of them pretty deep. At a certain point, firms need to cut costs in order to stay profitable enough to keep their top talent, attract new talent, or in some cases just to stay in business. While great for law schools and law students, summer programs are a very expensive (and often ineffective) way for firms to staff themselves (most new recruits don’t pan out or leave the firm after just a few years—which means the firms never even recoup their investment in them). More importantly, CLIENTS don’t like paying for new lawyers, so the ROI on these programs is usually pretty poor. Some firms abandoned their summer programs years ago, opting to hire lawyers with at least some level of experience (either in the courts, industry, or with other firms). In addition, many (most?) firms have just gone through layoffs, letting go lawyers with experience—which makes it pretty hard to justify hiring lawyers fresh out of school.
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ChickenLittle
Jul 24, 2009 8:30 AM CST
The sky is falling! Aiiiighhhh!
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gatorlaw
Jul 24, 2009 8:38 AM CST
Obviously it is disappointing to lose the opportunity for a summer internship. But when did it become an entitlement to get a summer internship at a “big law” firm? It is still a business.
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don't believe the hype
Jul 24, 2009 8:43 AM CST
I love how every week I get this newsletter and all it forecasts is doom and gloom. Thanks ABA for spreading the fear that you are partly responsible for! “Triple Bad News for Law Students”??? What kind of bulls**t headline is that? Here’s a headline I’d like to see: “Recession-Proof Job Search Tactics.” That would actually be useful, instead of a whole article dedicated to 3 law firms not hiring summer associates. Lame. Is that even news?
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JME
Jul 24, 2009 8:58 AM CST
and to think I volunteered to work for free my first summer just to get experience! Ah, what a loss that a dozen students nationwide have lost an opportunity. I somehow think they’d do better doing what I did. Find a solo, ask to shadow for the summer. Did wonders for my skill set, got to handle an entire case from basic research all the way to the trial brief, which my attorney used to win the case. A great experience, and now I am a solo doing okay. Sorry, no sympathy for those poor unfortunate Duke students who have lost the opportunity for a summer associate position at, what, only three law firms out of all the possibilities in the US? My, what a shame.
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Esq.
Jul 24, 2009 9:00 AM CST
The gravy train is ending. Nobody is willing to pay $200/hr to babysit law students. This means that Career Services offices will actually have to WORK to provide career counseling services to students instead of just handing out the NALP booklet. What is the world coming to???
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Lorie
Jul 24, 2009 9:28 AM CST
I would encourage these law students to volunteer with legal services or legal aid agencies. Our clients always have interesting legal issues. We provide the opportunity to have as much interaction with clients as the students could ask for. Given the economic downturn, we have more clients than ever. At my office I have two excellent summer interns who have gained experience and for whom I would be happy to provide glowing recommendations.
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Dave
Jul 24, 2009 9:53 AM CST
Anyone want a Summer internship with my firm (me). I don’t offer anything but expenses and the opportunity to really learn and do things most interns only dream of. You will draft motions and pleadings, sit in with clients, stand up in Court with me, attend depos etc. When its over, you’ll be able to open you own office (if you pass the bar : )
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Anon
Jul 24, 2009 11:11 AM CST
McLeod for the win
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jeff
Jul 24, 2009 11:30 AM CST
Add McGuire Woods
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Sarah M.
Jul 24, 2009 12:52 PM CST
Going to law school is a waste of time. I would have been better of getting my M.Ed and becoming a teacher instead. I think I will drop out before my third year. No need to further a degree at a fourth tier law school. This will not impress employers. Law school is a sinking ship and I am ready to get off!
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BrianL
Jul 24, 2009 2:13 PM CST
Sarah, if you have the la in your heart don’t drop out. Hang in there. Regardless of what school you go to, the books are the same, the cases are the same and the law is the same. Only difference is really the costs.
The law is not about the money, not a business and not a job but a profession. Yes, we need to earning a living but that comes with time and experience.
The education is priceless and is valuable in many callings besides the actual legal arena and in environments that are close such as arbitration, bankruptcy trustees, mediation services, and other businesses. With the changing environment, there are many opportunities to use the education, you simply need to think about the avenues other than the lazy and simple road of the expectation of being handed a job just because you graduated.
Sarah, when I write “you”, I am not pointing to you but referrring to all who are in school and read these threads.
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lawschoolscam
Jul 24, 2009 6:13 PM CST
law school is a scam.
Most students go to lower tier schools and most of those students never get a decent shot to make a living at law.
The law schools lie about whether their students have jobs as lawyers.
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bg
Jul 25, 2009 9:54 AM CST
You need to have work available for summer associates to do if you want to maintain a summer associate program, and without work for even the full time help to do, are you really going to delegate it down to the summer newbies who don’t know where to start? Maybe if they only hired when needed, rather than X number every year, firms would not be so bloated, needing to overcharge, overstaff, and now lay off. Responsible hiring may not be liked by law students, but it makes for healthy firms and happy clients.
My firm was hiring summer associates this year, but since we do not make offers for after law school, none of these silver spoon types seem to want to work for us and we were left with a vacancy, even in this year’s economy/climate. I guess students would rather wait tables at Denny’s then gain real legal experience. And I do not think you gain real legal experience in practical skills classes. After all, they tend to be taught by people who have not practiced in over 20 years! Plus the problems are so sanitized that you don’t have any of the problems that arise in real life.
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JN
Jul 28, 2009 12:34 PM CST
The sooner future law students and the general public realize that law is not a profession full of millionaires, the better. You can do very well as a lawyer - but at a cost - and it’s certainly not a given! In ANY line of work, success is based on hard work. Law is no different. Your having gone through law school and the bar exam doesn’t entitle you to a big salary - it just gives you the requisite skills (arguable, I know) and capacity to try and make a good lawyer out of yourself. It’s up to you, not your law school, not the big law folks, and not your loan officer.
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Old School
Jul 29, 2009 2:26 AM CST
I commend BrianL for his response to Sara M., and having graduated 15 years ago this year, I agree to an extent with Lawschoolscam in content but not in spirit. However, I think the Sarah M’s should not be encouraged to stay in the profession. Her disposition is a recipe for future bar discipline. The profession does not need more people who DON’T want to be lawyers. But quitting anything does not commend you to anything, so Sarah M. should finish law school and look for an alternate career path where she can use her JD. Law school is a scam of sorts—but only if you believe all of the propoganda offered by popular culture about what the practice of law is all about. Get the degree for the education—as BrianL said, it is priceless, but only IF you train your mind to (cliche alert) think like a lawyer. The law school business is not much different from the jeans business: A product goes to Niemann Marcus, B product goes to Lord & Taylor, C product goes to the Gap and D product goes to Ross. In our business, the jeans are graduates and the stores are employers. The trick is to find a way to separate yourself from the pack and make yourself mobile in the profession. Once you graduate and begin to work (and any legal work is something to be proud of) you begin to close the gap with those from “higher” tier schools and those from your school with better grades IF you work hard to distinguish yourself. Law is a hidebound profession of hierarchy and apprenticeship but you can rise through the ranks. But if you don’t want to be a lawyer anymore, don’t drop out of school—take your degree and go write or teach or open a business or sell real estate but don’t practice law. Ifd you don’t want to be a lawyer and do it anyway, sooner or later you will get your wish and be excluded from the profession involuntarily by bar discipline.
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