Law Firms Should Foster Career Skills, Not Drinking Skills, Expert Says

Associates

Law Firms Should Foster Career Skills, Not Drinking Skills, Expert Says

Posted Jul 24, 2008, 12:00 pm CDT
By Debra Cassens Weiss

A career expert has some advice for law firms running summer associate programs: Spend less money on late-night parties and more on training and mentoring programs.

Writing for the National Law Journal, Lauren Stiller Rikleen said she has heard too many tales of summer associates who feel pressured to attend after-event parties where the alcohol flows freely. Law students who want to secure an offer for a $160,000 full-time job after graduation don’t want to miss out on the chance for socializing and don’t want to be labeled as “not being fun,” she says.

But the parties foster uncomfortable situations, says Rikleen, the author of Ending the Gauntlet: Removing Barriers to Women's Success in the Law. The pressure to drink isn’t the only problem. “Summer associates report an atmosphere that seems to condone inappropriate comments and sexual overtures,” she says.

Rikleen says law firms need to develop clear rules for personal conduct, communicate them to associates and partners, and enforce a zero-tolerance policy for violations. They should also stop funding after-event parties, she says.

“Firms that foster career-building skills over drinking skills are sure to have an advantage in the fiercely competitive recruitment of the talented millennial generation graduating law school today,” she concludes.

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Posted by associate - 1 month, 1 week, 5 days, 9 hours, 45 minutes ago

I think she also misses the point that these kind of events are intended to see how a potential recruit handles themselves in these situations. This is exactly the kind of situation you end up in shortly down the road when visiting/entertaining firm clients.
Posted by Michael Blake - 1 month, 1 week, 4 days, 15 hours, 59 minutes ago

Yes. A lawyer has got to know how and when to drink, and when to stop drinking. Clients pay the bill, so that’s not an issue. Building client confidence usually involves a martini or cassis, so i’ts good to build this into the basic training package. Also, learning how to deal with adverse clients is important.
Posted by Anonymous - 1 month, 1 week, 4 days, 13 hours, 17 minutes ago

And what about lawyers who DON’T drink??? I don’t drink & no one gives me grief about it (my father’s a practicing alcoholic who made my childhood a living hell). Those who would give flack to others about drinking also tend to back off when they hear this fact; not doing so would prove to me that the client isn’t going to listen to me at all and therefore, is no one I want to represent.

I was in a sorority & plenty of people in mine didn’t drink + NEVER got hassled about it.

A firm could even be facing religious discrimination in denying offers to non-drinkers considering some would be violating their religion if they drank; ever thought about that???
Posted by ed - 1 month, 1 week, 4 days, 11 hours, 34 minutes ago

Let’s see. a law student gets propositioned by a drunk partner, successfully rebuffs the partner and then doesn’t get the job as associate? Hmmmm....don’t think you won’t hear of It? Don’t think depositions will include summer associates from that or previous years’ parties? Don’t think that the partner didn’t engage in the activity before or since? Don’t think that other partners weren’t aware of inappropriate drunken behavior at parties? Sounds like a lot of potential for trouble.
Posted by associate - 1 month, 1 week, 4 days, 6 hours, 55 minutes ago

Anonymous,

I don’t really drink. Firms aren’t looking to make sure that you know how to drink; they’re looking to make sure that you know how to handle yourself properly and pleasently in those types of situations. It’s really quite easy, and there’s no need to be so aggressive as to put others off:

“I have to drive myself home, and I make a habit of never driving after drinking.”

“No thanks, I just feel like a Coke tonight.”

“I’m not a big drinker, but thanks anyway.”

ed, you seized on everything except the point. The partners aren’t there to get drunk and act stupid, they’re there to see if you do.
Posted by Cunyon - 1 month, 1 week, 4 days, 6 hours, 36 minutes ago

Ms. Rikleen has a point about the emphasis on socializing, particularly in the sports and bar venues that some of the firms gravitate toward. I think those commenters who argue that such outings either test or prepare summer associates for their early years must not have spent years at the firms Ms Rikleen complains about. Those lawyers will not even see or smell a paying client for years, let alone go get drunk with one. And for the poster who believes that the outings are to observe the summer kids, they also make fruitful territory for trolling for susceptible youngsters whose only sin is ambition. The choice of pick-up bars, saloons, and sports bars as venues is anachronistic, and presumes a certain clubby frat life that is more reminiscent of the Gatsby and George W crowds than the diverse racial, gender, culture and class backgrounds that law graduates of today possess. What about activities that allow meaningful interaction between firm lawyers and the interns, like good regional theatre, open-air movies, symphony concerts? Wouldn’t they function better as tests and preparation for adult socializing, if indeed that’s the employers’ intent? This trend will die when those heavily-courted students at top law schools speak up and demand real lawyers’ experiences in the summer and not overpaid chug-fests.
Posted by kay sieverding - 1 month, 1 week, 3 days, 10 hours, 40 minutes ago

I spend a lot of time reading legal news and I don’t think “cunyon” that bars and saloons as venues for law firm socializing is “anachronistic” at all. In fact, the new venue seems to be strip clubs and brothels. In Denver for instance, it was substantiated that the chief federal judge Edward Nottingham was a regular visitor at the Diamond Cabaret strip club. That is only 3 minutes from the Federal Court house and the downtown Denver law offices. I also read that there is a list of email addresses taken from the Denver Sugar or Denver Players escort services and that that included many lawyers’ names. Nine News reported that Judge Nottingham was delivered prostitutes 10 times last summer. They interviewed the driver in their article “Chief federal judge investigated for alleged involvement with prostitutes “

One thing I don’t understand is why they can’t crack down on judge’s drinking. I met an airlines pilot who was super careful about drinking because he was prohibited by his employer from any drinking within 24 hours of commercial flying. I don’t understand why judges can’t be prohibited from drinking the night before a trial. There are news reports of people being to drunk to legally drive the morning after. Judge Nottingham spent $3,000 at the Golden Cabaret on the evening of 9/5/05 extending into 9/6/05. That was a Tuesday night. The judge’s excuse was that he was so drunk he couldn’t remember. How many times have you been so drunk you couldn’t remember? That is really really drunk. Just 3 days later Judge N ordered me jailed without a criminal conviction, statement that I disrupted the court, or evidentiary hearing. Maybe he was legally drunk then.

When I was young and relatively attractive and trying to be professional some disturbing things happened to me. 1.) Someone offered me $10,000 to sleep with someone and get some product designs from him 2.) My boss discussed getting blow jobs while he knew I was sitting within hearing 3.) A senior executive I met at a training session held by my employer asked me to go to a NYC club that according to the news had public sex rooms for customers and encouraged public and group sex in the club. (I didn’t go and soon quit my job) (1982) 4.) The computer room where I had to go for my job had Playboy centerfolds hanging everywhere.

Maybe there should be a union for associates and other legal services employees. Then you could call your union rep when that sort of problem arises.
Posted by kay sieverding - 1 month, 1 week, 3 days, 10 hours, 14 minutes ago

correction 9/5/05 was a monday night

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