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1. Posted by Christopher Oelzen - 3 weeks, 1 day, 3 hours, 23 minutes ago

   The partners in these firms are nothing if not greedy, self-serving and malicious.  While enjoying their gin and tonics at the club, they wonder aloud in one breath as to whether their associates, who remain at the firm late into the evening and forego any semblence of family life, are overpaid; and yet, with the very next breath, also wonder why associates are not more loyal, and why they leave after several years from the drudge of a dull job.  Perhaps it is the partners income that is overblown.  Or perhaps the partners have merely forgotten their own time as an associate.

2. Posted by Carol - 3 weeks, 1 day, 1 hour, 54 minutes ago

   Given how expensive it is to live in London, that really isn’t all that much.

3. Posted by Jon - 3 weeks, 1 day, 32 minutes ago

   first year out of law school. $125K - $160K, whatever.  First year associates ARE paid too much.  They are also worked too much, but for that kind of money they have no right to complain.  Sorry boys, no pity here.  I was getting shot at for my country for $20K per year, and not complaining then, not complaining now.  I will be solo my first year, my work, my pay, and happy to earn it.  Suck it up, crybabies.

4. Posted by kate - 3 weeks, 1 day, 12 minutes ago

   Associates at top firms work ridiculous hours - billing as many as 80 hours per week.  Meanwhile, they don’t have time to spend with their families, friends, etc. doing things that are enjoyable.  Do the math.  They average about $30 per hour of income.  However, their firm probably bills them out at about $200 per hour - at a minimum.  As far as I’m concerned, associates at large firms don’t make enough money to justify their sacrifices.  I have no sympathies for partners - although some of them work hard, most of them rely on those same associates to provide the work product they should be doing and the revenues that the firms require.  Large firms work their associates like dogs because they don’t care about their well-being or whether they will retain that associate in the future.  Big firms can be aptly compared to sweatshops.  Associates often burn out quickly, turn to alcohol and drugs, alienate their friends and families....  Most leave the large firm practices after a few years to find something more manageable.
   Take it from me.  I work at a medium-sized firm now, and although I have sacrificed the big money, I’m much happier with the overall quality of my life.

5. Posted by Robert - 3 weeks, 1 day, 9 minutes ago

   In my view, associates should start at $200K. The partners couldn’t do it with out us.  While they make $1.5-3 million per year, I find it troublingly hypocrytical that they would bite the hand that feeds them.

6. Posted by Jimmy - 3 weeks, 23 hours, 57 minutes ago

   Not every grad makes 125-160k, not nearly.  The ones that do aren’t overpaid.  Think about it, 80 hour weeks making the same hourly someone would make for a skilled 40 hour job.

   I decided at the outset of law school that firm life isn’t for me, but I respect those that can put in those sorts of hours.  Of course, I’m a management consultant going to law school at night, so some would gather there’s at least a little bit wrong with me too.

7. Posted by JS - 3 weeks, 22 hours, 59 minutes ago

   Why is it that associate pay is not tied more directly to each associate’s billing rate and the expected ability to collect for each hour billed?  Here’s a simple calculation --- First Year Associate A will be billed to clients at $100 per hour and is expected to bill 2000 hours annually.  If all of A’s time is actually billed and collected (and we know it won’t be, but humor me, please, for the sake of an example), the firm can expect to receive $200,000 from A’s work.  Out of that $200,000 has to come A’s salary and benefits, A’s pro rata share of overhead, and hopefully a few dollars of profit for the partners.  In this situation, A could expect to make maybe $65-75,000 tops, I would imagine.  But at $100 per hour billing rate, A probably lives in a smaller community with a lower cost of living.  Obviously, as the billing rate increases, A’s salary would increase.  This is really just a matter of dollars and cents....and some common sense, too.

8. Posted by Sean Tunor - 3 weeks, 22 hours, 51 minutes ago

   Jon—Good luck with your practice buddy.  While you are feeling high and mighty you may want to ask yourself, at what $ rate willl you be not getting overpaid for what you are bringing to the table for your clients as a first year solo.  Lol, the ability to read a CLE guide?  What you learned about “law” from law school, haha!  No pity for associates here either, but I really do pity your future clients.

9. Posted by London is (Very) Expensive - 3 weeks, 22 hours, 4 minutes ago

   As an aside, have you ever tried to live in London?

   London is astronomically expensive, and 62k pounds is not much, comparatively.

10. Posted by anon - 3 weeks, 21 hours, 54 minutes ago

    Junior associates at firms like Clifford Chance obviously bill out at more than $100 an hour, like $300-400 an hour, so using JS’s math it makes perfect sense to pay them over 125k.  If you do the traditional dividing b 3 method, 1/3 profit, 1/3 overhead, 1/3 salary then there is no reason why not to pay first year associates 160k salaries.

11. Posted by David - 3 weeks, 20 hours, 28 minutes ago

    "In my view, associates should start at $200K. The partners couldn’t do it with out us.  While they make $1.5-3 million per year, I find it troublingly hypocrytical that they would bite the hand that feeds them.”

    That actually made me smile. At $160K with the terrible hours there are hundreds of new grads every year ready, willing, and able to take the job from every new associate at every big firm. In fact, at $100,000 that probably still be true. New associates don’t get paid because they
    “feed” partners (midlevel associates feed partners), but because big firms are always afraid not to keep up with the other big firms in the race for the latest and greatest new grads.

12. Posted by Kim in Spokane - 3 weeks, 19 hours, 20 minutes ago

    I’m fairly unsympathetic to anyone who agrees to pay an employee an astronomical sum, and them complains it’s too much.

13. Posted by some experience - 3 weeks, 18 hours, 28 minutes ago

    Without the benefit of a keyboard symbol on my laptop for “cents,” here is my 2 cents worth.

    The practice of law is a quintessential service business. Lose sight of that and you find all sorts of quibbling. The string of comments here is testimony to that.  If you think that money is the reward for the practice of law, maybe you got into the wrong business. Sorry if you missed the boat because the rest of us are busy serving our clients, no matter how well-healed they are.

14. Posted by some experience - 3 weeks, 18 hours, 21 minutes ago

    correction: That was supposed to be “well-heeled,” I think.  I’m not perfect and I don’t have anyone proofreading my missives (maybe I should)… ok ... if there is a flame out there.

15. Posted by 1L - 3 weeks, 16 hours, 33 minutes ago

    Well I think no one takes into account that the average law school student graduates with about $120,000 in debt. And thats just law school loans. Add in whatever their undergrad is and its clear they deserve the salaries.

16. Posted by David - 3 weeks, 16 hours, 6 minutes ago

    1L,
    That’s a different issue. Teachers in public schools who go to Cornell or U of Chicago have more debt. Their pay is not adjusted. There is no sense in which your financial decisions cause you to “deserve” a certain level of pay. It just doesn’t work like that.

    I would try to incur less debt than that if I were a 1L right now. Just something to think about.

17. Posted by respect - 2 weeks, 6 days, 20 hours, 35 minutes ago

    hey 13,

    “service” “BUSINESS”. We get paid for our services, we work, and work hard. If you feel bad for being paid for your work, feel free to charge less. Or, volunteer all your time and live on the street. All in the name of service.

    There is nothing wrong with being paid for working - in any profession. period.

18. Posted by Elliott - 2 weeks, 6 days, 17 hours, 43 minutes ago

    I think some people here areslightly misinformed about London. I am a US lawyer that works in London.
    First of all, 1st year associates under the English system would be 3rd year associates in the US. This is because there is a 2 year internship type period in the UK following law school. You are doing the same type of work you would do following your first 2 years after taking the bar exam.
    Second, as has been stated, London is more expensive than NYC. The cost of living is quite high and the level of work and hours is the same as Big US firms. So in many ways they are underpaid compared to their US counterparts.
    The one thing that goes in the UK’s favor is that we get 25 days of vacation and we are expected to use them.

19. Posted by TG - 2 weeks, 4 days, 14 hours, 30 minutes ago

    Nobody fresh out of school has anything to contribute that makes them worth more than six figures.  PERIOD. 

    Work them all you like boys, if they don’t like it, they should study accounting.  Same goes if they are in the practice of law for the money.

20. Posted by matthew herrick - 2 weeks, 3 days, 16 hours, 23 minutes ago

    a first year’s salary has never bought less than it does right now. relative to the then prevailing cost structure (housing, healthcare, food, education, etc.), associates were much better paid in the 60, 70s, 80s, and 90s