No LSAT Allowed in Michigan Law School’s Special Admissions Program

Law Schools

No LSAT Allowed in Michigan Law School’s Special Admissions Program

Posted Sep 25, 2008, 07:43 am CST
By Debra Cassens Weiss

University of Michigan undergrads interested in applying at the university’s law school for the 2010 term won’t have to take the Law School Admissions Test, and they won’t have to pay an application fee.

The school has announced a new “Wolverine Scholars Program” in which the school will consider Michigan undergrads based on their transcripts, demonstrated leadership and community service, and resilience in dealing with adversity, according to the law school’s website. Applicants must have a grade point average of at least 3.8.

The school warns potential applicants that they will not be considered for the program if they take the LSAT. The MoneyLaw blog suggests that one aim of the program may be to improve the school’s ranking in U.S. News & World Report.

“After all, the law school can hardly report LSAT scores for its 1L Wolverine Scholars if no such scores exist. Yet those same students offer the school a chance to greatly improve the mean GPA of its 1L class,” which was 3.64 last year, the blog says.

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Posted by Ellen Barshevsky - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 4 hours ago

KUDOs to the University of Michigan for this! I was always thinking that LSATs did NOT properly reflect my ability as a lawyer and I was right.

My professors in college always encouraged me to do well and I did, even though my LSATs were not good. My professors still told me that I would become a good lawyer, and I did not let them down. In fact, Professor Schmidt told me that could become a good litigator because of my ability to analyze facts and I spent 2 summers in litigation before graduating.

Mabye the LSATs will become a thing of the past and we ALL can rely on our good grades and recomenation from our professors who truly KNOW our ability.

Professor Schm
Posted by Skeptical - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 3 hours, 25 minutes ago

Resilience in dealing with adversity? I smell affirmative action.
Posted by LB - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 3 hours, 5 minutes ago

Sounds like a self-serving goal masked under the guise of student aid. What happens to those students if they aren’t accepted and haven’t taken the LSAT…they get to the back of the line to start all over
Posted by notsokeptical - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 3 hours, 4 minutes ago

In response to Skeptical, I think you smelled wrong. There are plenty of students who have had to deal with adversity who aren’t “diverse.“

Besides, these kids have to have a 3.8 in order to get into the program and the median G.P.A. is 3.6 for their program.

They aren’t necessarily doing these kids any favors, especially since they CAN’T take the LSAT which will limit their ability to apply to other programs.
Posted by yonny yonson - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 3 hours, 3 minutes ago

I kind of think that the LSAT is a bit of a heap anyway. Perhaps a good way to provide an extra set of statistics to chew up and spit out, but not much more of an indication of whether you can perform than your grades in college or your general life experience and success.
Good for Michigan.
Posted by Mindcrime - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 2 hours, 55 minutes ago

In the wake of the affirmative action companion cases regarding the same institution, nonsosketical, I think that “skeptical” supra has a point.

As for the difficulty of obtaining a 3.8, there a numerous institutions that have sizeable number of graduates with this GPA, as grade inflation is even more rampant now than when the topic was first broached by the media years ago.
Posted by silencedogood - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 2 hours, 49 minutes ago

C’mon notskeptical—you are a lawyer aren’t you? It all depends on what “adversity” means.

If a “diverse” student is presumed to have overcome diversity say, even if they are Carlton Banks (i.e very wealthy, privileged, etc.), and a “non-diverse” student has the burden of proving they overcame adversity then it is affirmative action.

A rose by any other name…
Posted by Tester - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 2 hours, 35 minutes ago

I think the article gets it right- UM wants to pad the good old GPA average. I don’t think the LSAT is that much worse in predicting attorney competence than law school itself. Then again this article isn’t about the value of standardized testing, but what UM is doing. Separately, I must confess that I actually immediately understood the “Carlton Banks” reference above.
Posted by esther - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 2 hours, 35 minutes ago

All accomplishment need now have an element of overcoming adversity. Look at the Olympic athletes, not good enough to be swift or graceful, each had to have an overlay of adversity as well.
Posted by Karl Meurlot - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 2 hours, 33 minutes ago

Appears to be another attempt by the law school to get around the prior problem with the admissions process for which the law school got its hands slapped by the court. They get a 4.0 for innovation and a 1.0 for good judgment.
Posted by ChitownLawStudent - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 2 hours, 32 minutes ago

Being a current Law school at another University, I think this is an unfair advantage you are giving the Michigan alumni.

Everyone, coming out of every other law school in the nation has to take the LSAT, whether it is an accurate reflection of law school success is highly doubtful, nonetheless, University of Michigan students get a good crack at one of the best Law Schools without going through the rigors of taking and studying for the LSAT.

Also, I think this is a bad plan for Michigan Grads, they are essentially putting all their eggs into one basket and if for some reason they don’t make the cut they will not be able to attend law school that year.

I smell a lawsuit coming.
Posted by Guts - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 2 hours, 27 minutes ago

mindcrime- the program only applies to U of M undergraduate students so grade inflation elsewhere is irrelevant.
Is there some study that shows minorities perform poorly on the LSAT in comparison to their GPA? To me that seems like the only way Affirmative Action gets into this discussion.
What a risk for an U of M undergrad. If you go this route, it’s Michigan or bust.
Posted by aj - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 2 hours, 20 minutes ago

I’ve always thought the LSAT was a racket and not a proven predictor of performance (at least not by any VERIFIED, statistical means). I did horrible on the LSAT and I’ve done awesome at a Tier 1 university. But I have this crappy LSAT score STILL plaguing me today- as I apply to certain jobs.
Posted by brad - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 2 hours, 15 minutes ago

Right on skeptical!

Resilience in dealing with adversity? I ALSO smelled affirmative action.

This is just a way to find out if someone was a minority without granting them special perks and ruining their ranking because they cannot score as high on a standardized test as the “rich white kids’ that have propped this school up for too long.

U of M law is a joke and AA admissions and scholarships is racist and reverse discriminatory.
Posted by Lauryn - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 2 hours, 10 minutes ago

How horrible to disallow them from taking the LSAT if they apply! Then if they don’t get in they can’t apply anywhere else until they do take it!
Posted by The Chum - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 2 hours, 8 minutes ago

Frankly, if they were serious about this sort of thing, they would remove names, races, and genders from their application, and conduct interviews over the phone, where the interviewer could not forward on gender information.

They won’t do that of course, because then the results, although completely non-biased to the applicants, wouldn’t look “diverse” enough, or wouldn’t have enough of x gender, or there wouldn’t be enough Zoroastrians, or whatever the cause-du-jour is for that admissions cycle.

I will grant them that refusing the applicants the ability to take the LSAT is a smart idea. Those kids that apply had better be good enough to take that risk.
Posted by Jim Eddington - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 2 hours, 4 minutes ago

Can anyone else say affirmative action?

“B-b-b-but Justice Roberts, they looked like what we wanted our class to look like in the class photo!! And that is of priceless importance to the practice of law! Right? I mean, it is, isn’t it?“

The big firms should just cancel OCI there, and this practice would go out the window.
Posted by Brian - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 2 hours, 2 minutes ago

About time that a school looked at the entrance requirements and decided to use indicators that have meaning.

I remember my LSAT experience. I had just completed the CPA exam the month before the LSAT that I had signed up to take. After the CPA exam I was too exhausted between it and my work to consider taking the exam and was going to skip it. My girlfriend when she realized I was going to pass on it pressed me to take it just for the practice. I never opened the LSAT envelope or looked at the practice questions, format or anything. In fact on the way to the exam site I was heading to the law school and my GF opened the envelope and saw the address of the site that was at the undergrad campus half way across the state from where I was going. I did a turn and we got to the school and I never did look at the material. Took the exam with no prep and walked out figuring there was no way I did well considering others had taken prep courses costing thousands, taken multitudes of practice exams, etc.

When the marks came out, it turned out I had one of the highest marks in the State and only applied to 1 law school and was accepted. Of course work experience, undergrad marks, etc. also played a role, I’m sure.

All during law school my study mates tried to find out my LSAT grades that were only divulged just before graduation and were found to be the highest of anyone in my entering class. As for getting through school, my experience with the CPA curriculum and exam was far more relevant. I found good study habits and attention in class, both in under grad school and law school meant something and the LSAT experience had no meaning. In fact, some of the top students at graduation had the lowest LSAT grades.

I also am a proponent of eliminating the bar exam if you graduated from an ABA approved school.
Posted by Ronnie - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 2 hours, 2 minutes ago

I think it’s a great idea, and I don’t think it harms U of M students. Actually, the website reference reads as follows:

* Applications may be submitted beginning May 15, 2009. We recommend that all application components be received within our office by July 1, 2009. An application must be completed and processed by the Admissions Office no later than July 10 to be eligible for evaluation. Because of the constrained timeframe, late, delayed, or incomplete applications will not be evaluated. Each applicant will be advised of our decision by July 21, 2009.

The decision is made in JULY prior to the start of the student’s senior year. I don’t know anyone who took the LSAT prior to December of their senior year, and many not until February. Therefore, if they’re not accepted they have plenty of time to prepare for the LSAT and have application packets ready for other schools. And for everyone who finds AA and reverse discrimination in anything a law school does, really, get over it.
Posted by CAT - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 2 hours, 1 minute ago

Re: #13: I’m not sure how a poor LSAT score can be plaguing you in job applications. Why do you bother reporting it? I worked in career services at a law school and don’t believe I’d encountered employers asking. Grades—absolutely. LSATs—can’t remember it happening.

It will be interesting to see how well this works—getting a 3.8 is no small task at U of M. Whatever their goal with the program, if it brings up entering GPA and improves their rank, it may be a smart move.
Posted by Dan - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 56 minutes ago

AJ - “But I have this crappy LSAT score STILL plaguing me today- as I apply to certain jobs.“

Whaaaaaaat? It plagues you??? I have never, ever even had a potential employer imply that he was going to suggest asking about my LSAT score. If he did, I’d walk.

What employers are asking your LSAT score?? I call BS.
Posted by a - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 50 minutes ago

I have worked for 4 different firms. No one ever asked me about an LSAT score.

By the 3rd job switch, they didn’t care about what my grade point was either.
Posted by Michel - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 49 minutes ago

And if they don’t get in, no one else will take them because they don’t have an LSAT score…
Posted by jg - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 46 minutes ago

Firms should cancel OCI there? Please. Most big law firms WANT affirmative action a law schools and business schools. And why is that? For the same reason that law schools want it - there is a benefit from diversity and diverse background experiences.

And don’t cry affirmative action for students who have to get a 3.8 at Michigan undergrad, which I would imagine is a very high bar. The real motivator behind this policy is probably that UM, like all state schools, tends to have lower LSAT and GPA scores because UM has to take 25% in-state students. This way, UM can avoid the drag that these students have on their statistics.

This also makes sense in that UM admissions is going to be very familiar with what it means for a student to get certain grades in certain classes from certain professors. The admissions officers can derive more information from a UM transcript than from college transcripts in general.

I think this is a smart way to meet their in-state quota and not get penalized by US News.
Posted by jg - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 45 minutes ago

#23 - you should read the full policy, which #19 was kind enough to include. This process occurs BEFORE the students’ senior year in college, so they have plenty of time to take the LSAT before applying to other programs.
Posted by My Name - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 44 minutes ago

Let’s look at this from another perspective. How many UM students exist?
How many UM students have a 3.8 GPA?
How many of these students are eligible for the Wolverine Scholars Program?
After graduation, how many of these eligible students actually plan to go to law school?
How many of these eligible students wish to go to UM Law?
Ultimately how much of the UM student body REALLY gets affected?
I would think a student with those kinds of credentials at 20, 21 or 22 years old would be able to make a somewhat intelligent decision as far as their academic career is concerned. Weigh the options and decide whether to take the LSAT from there. If they take the LSAT, that just means they’re no longer eligible for the Wolverine Scholar Program. The reference made by poster #19 doesn’t indicate they can’t apply to UM Law in the “traditional” fashion. That’s my $.02.
Posted by MeMyselfAndI - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 39 minutes ago

It’s nice to see that one of the top law schools is coming around to realizing that the LSAT is a bunch of baloney. Students who acheive high GPAs are clearly bright, intelligent, diligent and have a strong work ethic. I did very poorly on the LSAT - and I took it twice. I think the only thng that got me into law school was my 3.89 GPA. My LSAT scores were very disproportionate to how I did in law school.

On the other hand - my stomach turns at the fact that U of M is more than likely doing this for selfish reasons. Law schools don’t really care about their students - Alumni and rankings come before their students. And that’s a shame.
Posted by Jim Eddington - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 33 minutes ago

@24 who said: “For the same reason that law schools want it - there is a benefit from diversity and diverse background experiences.“

Ummmm, if there is one, that certainly isn’t true simply because you happen to repeat the mantra they use to defend such practices.

I’ve hired any number of attorneys in my time, and never once can I say that some irrelevant physical trait, ever had any bearing on their ability to practice law. Why is that? Because physical traits don’t have any bearing on someone’s ability to practice law.

The only way one can claim that x physical trait leads to “diversity” is if they stereotype that person because of that trait. Which, of course, is just as wrong as stereotyping anyone for any unrelated physical trait.

That’s just idiocy. “Appearing in broad daylight with police everywhere, ladies and gentlemen, there’s only one word for that: idiocy.“—Kent Brockman
Posted by Ken Snyder - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 30 minutes ago

I went to Michigan undergrad and Law School. BA History ‘71 JD ‘79.
I scored in the top .5% on the LSAT back in the day when the LSAT still had “imaginary language.“ There isn’t enough space here to explain what that was, but having taken French, German, Latin and English in high school and college, it was relatively easy for me to decipher it on the LSAT. I heard later they took “imaginary language” out of the LSAT to dumb down the LSAT because minorities (other than us Jews) were not doing so well. I don’t know if that’s true, just what I heard somewhere. I don’t need to be told this is biased on several different levels and is certainly not politically correct.
Personally, I think the ability to understand the structure of language is critical to being able to think like a lawyer. Success in the legal profession involves more than just that, things like family ties to old money, a presentable professional appearance, etc., but I still think it’s important.
The University of Michigan is on the brink if it has not already gone off the deep end with its leftist political agenda. Michigan needs to think a few steps ahead, because after the Revolution they’re going, like Shakespeare said, to “kill all the lawyers.“
Posted by Michigan Law Grad - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 26 minutes ago

LOL, I have two comments: first, the reason why the law school is dropping the LSAT for undergrads is because most of the students are from in-state, and having attended an out-of-state private university, the average GPAs/LSATs for in-state students is LOWER than for those like I, which means one thing, and one thing only: the overall LSAT scores will increase significantly, which will translate into a higher metric for, you guessed it, the USN&WR;rankings!!!! Michigan Law has dropped in the rankings and all of us are very upset over it. Second, and this addresses the 3.8 threshold, Michigan is a very large public school, and like UCLA and Cal, and to a lesser extent Virginia and North Carolina, the kids have to devour each other to gain the attention of their professors to get good grades and letters of recommendation. There is little grade inflation at Michigan, merely because of the literally thousands of undergrads who compete brutally for good grades….thank goodness I had the good sense to attend a private college!
Posted by Diversity, no? - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 22 minutes ago

How did the law school get its hand slapped by the court when they upheld the use of race for law school admission? Didn’t they strike down the use of the points system in the undergradujate system? Ah well, all this is moot as Michigan has a constitutional ban against affirmative action in the use of admissions.
Posted by Mark Johnson - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 18 minutes ago

The assumption that a high undergraduate GPA equates to a high law school GPA is not exactly a “given.“ Maybe I’m an oddity, but both my UGPA and my LSAT were at approximately the median for my class. Somehow, I graduated No. 1. There is no perfect indicator of law school success, but I agree with other commentors that this smells of affirm. action and an attempt to game the rankings.
Posted by foreman - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 17 minutes ago

The LSAT is said to accurately indicate performance in Law School. But if you went to law school and you have practiced law then you probably know many very good students who you wouldn’t even trust to write a quitclaim deed for you.
Posted by BigLaw - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour, 7 minutes ago

I’m sick of all these whiners complaining that LSAT scores and GPAs aren’t accurate predictors of performance. So what is a law school (or for that matter, a potential employer) supposed to do, magically peer into the goodness of your soul? Get over it.
Posted by UM Law Grad - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 1 hour ago

I think it’s a pretty obvious attempt at bumping up the USN&WR;rankings, which I don’t have a problem with because every year we seem to drop ever so slightly.

Plus, most of my best friends in law school there were UM undergrads (I was not) so the more the merrier.
Posted by Elwood - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 54 minutes ago

One point being missed in all of this is the fact that Michigan takes, by far, the lowest percentage of in-state students of any public related law school in the country and less than many highly ranked private law schools. At last count it was below 25% and dropping to less than 20r;om Michigan. In comparison, UVa. takes maybe 70r;om instate and only about a third of its students from out of state .Because Michigan is a relatively large State, there really is no need to hide ther elatively low number of in-staters’ LSATs. To the extent it can be determined, the statistics for the in-staters is very comparable to the out-of-staters- in marked contrast to UC Berkeley or UVa. Consequently there has to be another motive here.
Posted by Jim Eddington - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 38 minutes ago

@34, who ironically whined, “I’m sick of all these whiners complaining that LSAT scores and GPAs aren’t accurate predictors of performance. So what is a law school (or for that matter, a potential employer) supposed to do, magically peer into the goodness of your soul? Get over it.“

No, rocket scientist, they should look at two page (or longer) resumes, they should interview extensively, they should take prior non-legal experience into account, look at several writing samples, et cetera.

You see, that makes good business sense, beyond just letting the admissions committee at x school make your hiring decisions for you.
Posted by Ann - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 31 minutes ago

You cannot criticize the percentages of in vs. out of state without also noting the percentages of applications for each. Does anyone have those numbers?
Posted by Odysseus Rex - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 17 minutes ago

Hmmm… I had unimpressive grades from a decent state university, and LSAT scores that were almost off the charts. Got me into a very good law school, where I won moot court AND wrote a law review article. ( Saved me from going to ‘nam as a snuffy.) I’ve had a wonderful, varied, 30+ year career doing the kind of practice I wanted. So, KEEP THE LSAT!
Posted by Jade - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 17 minutes ago

affirmative action? if someone gets a 3.8 at u of m, their subsequent successes are not based on affirmative action!
Posted by D - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 13 minutes ago

this focus on GPA only encourages undergrads to take bunny glasses instead of classes where they’ll actually learn something that would benefit them as attorneys
Posted by Double Skeptical - 1 month, 3 weeks, 6 days, 13 minutes ago

I concur with commentator no. 3. Another poorly conceived attempt to use affirmativeaction in the admission process. One has to wonder why the academic community never gets it right.
Posted by necessary evil - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 53 minutes ago

No one likes to be reduced to a score on a standardized test, but ultimately that number is a strong predictor of first year performance—not career performance or even academic performance beyond the first year, but the purpose of the LSAT was not intended to be so far-reaching. I would be disappointed if I were part of an entering UM class where my classmates may not perform to the caliber I’d expect from a school ranked so highly. I think the LSAT is valuable, even if there’s a long list of anecdotal evidence to show how it failed to predict the performance of a friend or even yourself in law school.
Posted by Andrej Starkis - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 48 minutes ago

Having taught for some years at a private (non-ABA-approved) law school that has never required the LSAT—and doesn’t consider it in admissions even if an applicant has taken it—turns out well-trained lawyers, and costs about a third of what other private law schools charge, Michigan’s move and all the comment above are mildly amusing. The LSAT is a convenience tool for admissions staffs and a manipulable element in the great ratings-game myths. It may have some utility in assessing baseline ability to handle law school and the bar exam, but that baseline is far lower than most schools would admit. I’ve been doing a bit of research with the LSAT and bar-pass results of those of our past students who had taken the LSAT and thereafter took the bar. The preliminary findings suggest that while bar-pass results fall off dramatically for LSAT scores under 140, above 145 there is little significant difference in bar pass rates. What differences I found even suggest that those who scored 145-149 had a slighly better bar-pass record (over 80% on the Mass. bar) than did those between 150 and 155. Motivation perhaps.

It’s been encouraging lately to see not only the beginnings of a move away from the LSAT (like the undergraduate moves away from the SAT), but also the movement in many law schools toward actually training lawyers to be lawyers, as we’ve been doing against active ABA opposition for over 20years.

It’s always nice when others discover (though they’re unlikely to admit it) that what you’ve been doing all along has been right.
Posted by Former Law School Admissions Dean - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 38 minutes ago

First, the LSAT has been statistically verified by years and years of study by LSAC and is a significantly better predictor of FIRST YEAR LAW SCHOOL SUCCESS than undergraduate GPA. LSAC has never claimed or attempted to verifty that it predicts anything else, particularly success in the legal profession.

Second, as a former law school admisssions dean, I can tell you that the single most “important” topic in conversations among law school deans, faculties, administrators and alumni the past fifteen years has been how to increase the school’s ranking in US News. Because median LSAT scores and undergraduate GPAs are so heavily weighted in the rankings formula, law schools have come up with a number of creative “solutions” over the years to boost those numbers and their rankings, including reducing numbers of full-time 1L’s enrolled (the only group whose LSATs and GPAs are included in the ranking calculations), and making up revenue by increasing the number of part-time students, starting evening programs, and taking more transfer and visiting students. This program, regardless of the spin put on it, is nothing more and nothing less than an attempt to exclude a few LSATs in favor of higher GPAs for a group (in-state) that has lower LSAT and GPA numbers that the rest of their 1L class. It will also improve Michigan’s selectivity numbers (guess what, also part of the rankings formula!) as these students, many of whom would have scored well on the LSAT, if accepted early, will not apply elsewhere and be tempted by scholarships and other top schools. Although there is an outside chance that it could lead to increased ethnic diversity, my personal experiences with “dealing with adversity” criteria leads me to believe that they will discover that their non-minority applicants have dealt with as much adversity as their minority pool.
Posted by EastCoastLawProf - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 32 minutes ago

Rather than assuming they’re just playing a rankings game, how about seeing this as a great way to connect with students who are more likely to stay in Michigan, thus providing a greater good to the state? Instead of losing some of the top undergrad students, they’re keeping the ones who won’t have geographical limitations against Michigan in their final determination. The article could do a better job of indicating that the application would be submitted BEFORE most students would have taken their LSAT. This just takes the “Wolverine Scholars” out of the general pool that might otherwise decide to apply to a Yale, Chicago, or Columbia, and deepens those students’ connection to Michigan (the school, and, possibly, the state, which has recently made a push for growth that could be helped by maintaining some of our country’s best lawyers to support revamped industries in the state).

As for those who have commented on affirmative action, there is no indication that a student with a 3.8 or higher GPA who yields her or his opportunity to apply to any school in the country in order to attend Michigan law is somehow manipulating the system by (somehow, unfairly) being of a historically discriminated against group (be it based on race, sex, or some other determinant), and having the burden of explaining the overcoming of adversity in their admission application. This type of accusation asks us to ignore our better angels, and to vilify any program that might disproportionately (to their numbers in our society) benefit groups concerning which there have been past findings of de jure or de facto discrimination. I would hope members of our profession would consider: (1) that there’s no indicator of preferences in the Michigan proposal (other than to Michigan undergrads with a high GPA), and (2) that the claim of reverse discrimination where there exists the vaguest specter that some previously discriminated against groups might face lesser discrimination by a process change calls on us to engage in a discriminatory investigation to insure that such groups are NOT helped. I would note that the second point is not implicated here, as there appear to exist valid grounds for this program that are completely race/gender/religion/etc. neutral.
Posted by T Andrews - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 27 minutes ago

It’s interesting that those who are SKEPTICS of the new system, due to Affirmative Action; many of whom inject race into the argument. Newsflash: AA does not solely benefit minorities, it benefits women as well. The fact that women are deleted from the scheme in the minds of many is indicative of why AA is needed. Especially in a profession (like many others) that is non-reflective of society as a whole.

Many do not understand this, while many people have faced adversity only a small percentage has had adversity PLUS!

In other words: get a clue
Posted by Skeptical of Skeptical - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 23 minutes ago

So let me see if MY issue spotting is still sharp:

you see the phrase “adversity” and you automatically assume “minority” ...

As a minority myself, I can say, without the slightest hesitation, that although there has been a historic adversity faced by minorities, there are still many non-minorities who face adversities as well ... a quick glance at the racial make-up of welfare recipients would illustrate that point.

Further, as someone else posted earlier, this is NOT an edge by any stretch of the imagination. Not only is carrying a 3.8 after (a typical) 4 years at any undergraduate school (much less Michigan) daunting in of itself, but to add that the applicant CANNOT even sit for the LSAT (thus eliminating every other accredited law school as an option) is, in a word, stupid.

Considering, for example, that a Michigan undergrad with a 3.9 is not guaranteed admission to the Law School but will only be considered ... AND ... that there is no indication (at least in the report above) of how many 1L seats will be filled by those “Wolverine Scholars” then, unfortunately, I’m still left with that one word ... stupid.
Posted by GMZ - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 22 minutes ago

#14 must have gone to Ohio State.
Posted by Jacqueline Sharp - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 15 minutes ago

I have but one comment, no test or series of tests, not the LSAT nor the bar exams which admit new attorneys to practice for that matter are fair predictors of ability or success. That said I do think that U. of Michigan should realize that potential students are forced to take the LSATS by necessity; alternative schools where they apply may require it. Hence, in issuing the warning that their admissions department will not look at such applications seems to be self-defeating. Only the least bright will forego the LSATS.
Posted by Damian - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 9 minutes ago

Backdoor affirmative action—don’t they realize that Obama isn’t in there yet? Getting a jump on things, it would seem.]

Oh, and to those who are “outraged” at the assumption that this is a backdoor affirmative action plan, consider why we would feel that way. For starters, public law schools in California have flouted Proposition 209 for several years, admitting black students with LSATs in the 140s (I know this for a fact with respect to Boalt, but only have heard this about UCLA and UC-Hastings). There are only a handful of black students in the entire applicant pool that have the same credentials as white applicants who are admitted to top-10 law schools, yet those same schools collectively admit dozens of them (and, mind you, I am speaking only of the top-10 schools ... by the time you get down to the top regional schools, the credentials of black students who are admitted, when compared to white students who are rejected, would make your head spin).

It is not “racism” that drives objection to these policies, it is those policies’ unfairness and the lies and deception of those who are doing whatever they can to pack in as many unqualified minority applicants as possible (and to sue to make sure that nobody knows how many of them flunk out or fail to pass the bar, as Professor Sanders was trying to ascertain through research).
Posted by John - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 4 minutes ago

I’d forego the LSAT if I had a 3.8 in African Studies, Comparative East Asian Cultures, or some other cakewalk major at UM and realized that I’d rather just go to UM rather than to chance taking the LSAT and doing so poorly that I’d have to go to a lousy law school. Of course, it also means that I wouldn’t have to move (assuming I had some roots in the Ann Arbor area), and wouldn’t have to expend the time or effort needed to prepare for and take the LSAT. Because it is essentially a proxy for IQ, minorities do poorly at it. I’d rather slide by on 4.0 grades from sympathetic teachers in BS, insular degree programs and come out with a chance at a $160k offer due to perpetuation of the favoritism for minorities in the context of on-campus interviewing, large firm hiring, and law firm retention programs.
Posted by Jamie - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 22 hours, 50 minutes ago

This policy is going to hurt even UM’s own. I had an engineering background from a good undergrad, but my GPA was nowhere near a 3.8. I had a great LSAT score and did well in law school. UM will be seeing a lot of easy majors in its “Wolverine Scholars” program as John above noted.

The constant criticism of standardized tests as unfairly prejudicial is misguided, as they are a great way for those of us with difficult majors to show that our 3.1 GPAs are not necessarily going to predict our law school performances.

I doubt that there will be many patent attorneys coming out of that program at UM.
Posted by Mr. ToughMoneyLove - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 22 hours, 42 minutes ago

THis is a transparent attempt at (1) increasing admit rates for homegrown diversity candidates and (2) keeping those candidates away from other diversity-desperate programs. With the right “extra help” and by selecting the right majors, anyone who can fog a mirror can get a 3.8 GPA at Michigan or anywhere else.
Posted by KJ - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 22 hours, 35 minutes ago

I think all States should follow the lead of Vermont. A person who wants to sit for the Vermont bar exam is not required to attend law school. The statutes require that one must be sponsored by an attorney or law firm and is required to study and practice with the sponsor for two years. The sponsor covers all areas of the law to enable one to succesfully pass the bar. One of Vermont’s Supreme Court Justices passed the bar in this manner.
Posted by Andrej Starkis - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 22 hours, 26 minutes ago

Though it’s not a statistically valid sample, the comments above display a frightening level of prejudice in what might be thought an enlightened population and demonstrate that LSAT results (or the IQ tests for which they’re an alleged proxy) may not be able to uncover ignorance.
Posted by PC - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 22 hours, 17 minutes ago

It’s a sad thing when law-ambitious students give up taking the LSAT, thus limiting their options to also apply elsewhere, just so that a law school can meet flawed ranking criteria from US News.
Posted by A non-UM trained attorney - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 22 hours, 10 minutes ago

Here’s another case of the University of Michigan circumventing laws made by elected representatives and affirmed by public vote because it likes being the self-appointed (self-anointed) “leader and best” in the forefront of the law of social engineering. Makes one wonder exactly what they’re teaching law students at UM these days—me first and constitutional democracy last?
Posted by Michigan Law Grad - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 21 hours, 39 minutes ago

The law school’s new policy really has little to do with AA, because there are only a handful of students from underrepresented minorities who even attend UofM undergrad (check the stats, U of M is predominantly white). Most of the “minorities” hailed from pretty good undergradute institutions when I went there (e.g., Princeton, Haaaavard, etc.). The new policy is really addressed to the hoards of U of M undergrads who are admitted (mostly white) with good—not stellar—GPAs and solid but not 99th percentile LSATs. U of M is the finest school in all of Michigan, at least insofar as reputation, and unfortunately, most of the in-state good applicants are U of M undergrads, so the law school must rely largely upon that group of students to fill its in-state quota. On the whole, the average LSATs/GPAs for that discrete group is lower than the average for out-of-state applicants. The AA argument is a red herring in this debate. It’s all about the rankings, pure and simple.
Posted by bill - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 21 hours, 31 minutes ago

The University’s policy makes considerable sense and it should be appauled. I am aware of UofM students who graduated from its Honors College, received law school acceptances at Yale and Georgetown, yet were denied admission because of the LSAT. These students are now law professors, served as federal judicial law clerks, and practiced at American Lawyer Rated Top 100 law firms. It is clear the LSAT bears no substantial relation to law school and practice success.
Posted by LawProf - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 21 hours, 28 minutes ago

This is an innovative idea with many virtues, good for the law school and good for some students. First, 3.8 is a very good average at UM, probably high honors - only a select group of students are eligible. Second, many of these students would have had very high LSAT scores had they taken them, and those who would not may be largely the type that always tests below their performance, the very type who are unfairly excluded from opportunities in our testing culture. Third, UM has enough experience with UM admittees and UM profs outside the law school that it know which profs and courses are tough and which might be guts. Fourth, it is almost impossible if not impossible to get through UMwith a 3.8 without having taken a number of tough courses. Even if you’re talking about an “easy” intro level course there is enough competition from all students that a high average means something, not just in terms of smarts but even more so, perhaps, in terms of diligence and study habits. Finally, if this is a way to someone do affirmative action without saying so, it is a very poor strategy. There are simply not enough minority undergraduates with very high averages who would score so low on the LSAT that they could not be admitted regularly, especially if they were in state to make a great difference. Finally, while tis might help UM with its U.S. news rankings I doubt that it is an attempt to game the rankings in the way some schools have done (e.g. hiring their own jobless graduates to report higher employment rates or dmitting low scoring students to night schools so their LSATs wouldn’t count and then allowing them to transfer to the day school or admitting many more transfers and a lower and more select first year class.) Rather it is a way to bring in top students who might otherwise go to competitive institutions. The 3.8 student who would have gotten a 172 LSAT and gone to Harvard now goes to U.M. Good for U.M. The only issue is it good for the student, who might have preferred Harvard had he/she only known. I see issues here, but these students are grown ups and they can choose what they want to do. The attracions of the program are no more coercive than what schools do who give students very large scholarships knowing that if they did not they would lose the student to a more prestigious institution. Some students accept them; some turn them down. It is the same here - student’s choice.
Posted by Michigan Law Grad - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 21 hours, 10 minutes ago

To LawProf: the fact remains that as UofM Law alumni, we are all cognizant of the indisputable fact our ranking has dropped continuously during the tenure of the present dean. At long last he has devised a simple way to increase our overall LSAT scores; I hope it works, for our sake AND HIS. Otherwise, he likely will leave…
Posted by smartbulldog - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 20 hours, 5 minutes ago

I can only comment based on my experience. As a law student, and member of the US Marine Corps Platoon Leaders’ Class law program, I previously assisted the US Marine Corps in recruiting law students for the PLC-Law program. Our recruiting district possessed a high quota for women and minorities for the PLC -Law program. Typically, the minority students possessed abysmal LSAT scores…i.e., 320… with 200 points the guaranteed minimum. However, these same students often went to colleges with “alternative” grading standards. For example, some received only pass/fail grades throughout their college education. Some colleges ONLY offered pass/fail grades and used the teacher’s summary description of the student’s efforts as the real “truth teller” of the student’s performance. But, the teachers’ descriptions possessed a wide margin of inflation. Yet, these same students received acceptance into a law school with a stated LSAT average of 620 for the entire student body. This figure factors in the downward affect of the low scores I previously mentioned. Unfortunately, none of the minority applicants we selected passed our ten week officer candidate school in Quantico, VA, or the state bar for that matter. However, they did graduate from law school. They blamed the U.S. Marine Corps for “using them” because of their minority status Conversely, without their minority status, neither the highly competitive U.S. Marine Corps officer candidate program, or our law school would grant selection. Interestingly, the USMC and the bar examination both ultimately demanded objective measurements of performance, and found these students’ performance “unsatisfactory”. College and law school, on the other hand, coldly passed the minority students through the chute to the tender mercies of the marketplace and whatever cruel fate may await.
I say this all from personal experience. My recruiter secured an award for me that year as the “Outstanding PLC-Law Candidate of the Year” for recruiting five law students into our JAG program when nationwide the program selected an annual average of twenty-three.
Posted by Elwood - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 19 hours, 42 minutes ago

The only real slippage at U of M Law School has been due to the fact that many of its older, stellar faculty members have retired or died in recent years and it will take some time for their replacemnts to acquire the same stature. In the 70’s and 80’s Michigan had attracted probably the best Law School faculty in the country. Unfortunately, Law School faculties are like many professional football teams, due to too many good seasoned players, the best younger ones go to other Teams where they flourish and remain. As far as the quality of the student body goes, the reduction in the number of in-staters to below 20 percent can only mean that it has improved. In fact Michigan is the only public law school of any renown that has no in-state quota. That being said, I can only surmise that this new program is what it purports to be-an innovative attempt to attract more of the best and brightest to U of M.
Posted by Ronnie - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 18 hours, 47 minutes ago

To PC, #57: PLEASE read my first post, #19. We’ve already gone over that element.
Posted by Cunyon in Chicago - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 18 hours, 33 minutes ago

Well, well, what a thrill it is to see the ABA blurb on the change at UM has sparked some much-needed dialogue about many ticklish, but very pertinent topics: the value of the LSAT as a predictor of . . .whatever; the value of diversity in the law school environment; and that old sawbones affirmative action.

To the sheeplike thread of comments endorsing Skeptical (at 2), I ask what part of the UM announcement stated that “overcoming adversity” would be PRESUMED for minority students? The program will consider overcoming adversity along with those other factors, including the damn fine GPA of 3.8. While you smell “affirmative action,“ I smell your willfully ignoring plain statements of facts to reinforce a conclusion you’ve already reached. I discern from your snarky putdown that 1) you equate affirmative action with lack of quality, and 2) you have probably acted on, judged other people on, and felt superior because of your incorrect assumption. Since when does leadership, community service, resilience and smarts equate to “lower” quality than say, 88&#xil;e LSAT, 3.6 GPA, and some second or third-generation of New England lawyers? It is presumptions like yours that keep the legal profession too generic, stultified, inbred and same old same old.

Just the facts, sir: Based on the criteria stated (as compared to the ones you invented), this Carlton Whoever, if he indeed had no adversity to overcome, will likely qualify as a Wolverine Scholar. What are you afraid of anyway, that a slew of upper middle-class blacks and Latinos with 3.8 GPAs who’ve been spoonfed all their lives will snatch up the law school spots that really BELONG to white guys who did well on the LSAT? What a disaster that would be for U Michigan, the state bar, and the profession as a whole!

Pipe down, Wally and Beaver, your presumption of entitlement is intact.
Posted by Harvey - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 18 hours, 26 minutes ago

Why does everyone have one basic assumption in their arguments either for or against affirmative action - that minority students, whatever the race, score lower on LSAT’s or other standardized test. As a minority, I scored 165 on an IQ test as an 8 year old, perfect scores on my SATS and a perfect score on my LSAT and my four bar exams in four different states. Don’t equate affirmative action with lower performing minorities. That being said, as a partner at a large international firm, we look at grades, the school and LSAT’s as part of the hiring process for 1L associates so eliminating one of the criteria on which we base our hiring, will definitely hurt that applicants chances, whether the hiring cousel admits it or not.
Posted by Martha J. Gonzales - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 18 hours, 6 minutes ago

It worked for me 25 years ago. I was an undergrad student in economics with a near 4.0 gradepoint average. I had lousy LSAT scores. Loyola law school accepted me anyway and I passed the California bar on my first try.
Posted by Elizabeth - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 17 hours, 13 minutes ago

YOU AFFIRMATIVE ACTION PROTESTORS SHOULD REALLY DO YOUR RESEARCH!!! The ABA reported that U of M currently is 6.2% African-American that equals 22 students out of a incoming class of 355 (some affirmative action huh???) Those numbers are similar if not lower at all Tier 1 schools and can be seen at lsac.org. Quite complaining and work harder. If you are so smart and deserved to be there you would have gotten in! By the way Georgetown University has the same program for its undergrads.
Posted by Adam - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 16 hours, 34 minutes ago

1) Adversity is not an euphemism for AA. ANYONE who has lived through an ugly divorce, serious illness of a loved one, is the first generation to go to undergrad, had to juggle school and work, or is not part of the upper-middle class HAS faced adversity. Basically, most people have faced adversity in one form or another (perhaps my perception is blinded by my experiences and those of friends).

2) I’m assuming that many of you (#2 et al) are bitter that you didn’t get into your top school because “they gave it to an unqualified minority.“ Hate to break it to you but part of the reason why some deference is given to considering minorities is because they generally have a better (more mature) understanding of life. It’s much easier to stand out from the 1000s of applications when you have a more compelling/interesting story to tell.

3) It’s harder to come off as interesting or stand out from the crowd when your mentality is as simplistic as it appears here. A worldview that has been so blessed/blind as to equate adversity with minority means you’re probably not a very interesting person. To put it bluntly, you don’t bring much to the table; you don’t add much to a conversation; no one pleads for you to stay longer when you’re leaving social functions.

4) 3.8 at UM with a decision made early senior year… they’re trying to keep their best and brightest before they are wooed by the Northeast.

5) LSAT is not an accurate indicator of intelligence (neither is the IQ). It’s an accurate indicator of logical & spatial reasoning given certain cultural assumptions (upper-middle class, educated/professional parents).

Contrary to what Ken Snyder (# 29), the “imaginary language,“ if it is what I think it is based on your description, would IMPROVE minority performance on the test.

A close friend of mine is finishing her PhD dissertation on standardized testing. One part addresses when fake words are defined and used. Minorities (black/latinos) performed as well and in some cases BETTER than their white counterparts (sample size 1000) on standardized tests, lending credence to my cultural claim above.

Yikes… I didn’t intend for this to be a diatribe but reading the comments annoyed me to say the least. Clearly, many of the lawyers/law students posting here aren’t among America’s best and brightest… I hope.
Posted by An Ann Arborite of a Different Stripe - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 14 hours, 48 minutes ago

When they change their name to the State Street School of Law and take themselves private with a $10 billion buy out from the people of the State of Michigan, then they’ll be free to play loophole law any way they choose. It would make a fine theme for the next fundraising campaign. Too bad William Cook had no heirs, they might have had a claim for the return of his legacy.
Posted by Francis Graham Lee - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 14 hours, 2 minutes ago

By gaming US New and World Report’s rankings - something other law schools have done - Michigan clearly puts those students who are rejected in a bad position. The student who wants to be accepted to law school immediately upon graduation should take the June test. By doing so, the students can use the October test as a back-up in case hey do not do as well on the LSAT as they need. With the application process computerized, the December test puts applicants at a slight disadvantage.
Posted by Judge Walter chandler - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 9 hours, 18 minutes ago

I took the LSAT over 30 years ago—one day of multi state and two days of blue book essays at a top law school, SMU..Based upon my 97.3 percentile rating on the LSAT and my Last two years of undergrad,I was given a full academic scholarship. Over the last 33 years of practice i am not sure the LSAT has helped me in any other way in mastering my craft. I took it on some days(3 day exam) when I happened to be “on my game” and fared well….How much it really meant to my overall success is a big question mark….hard work, dedication to ethics and principals, and mentoring from quality practitioners played a far greater role in my achievements in all probability. Had i taken the LSAT a week later and been not quite as sharp minded those days, the result may well have been quite different. Just some random thoughts from an old lawyer!
Posted by JR - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 8 hours, 36 minutes ago

I have mixed feelings about the LSAT and any true relevance to one’s ability to successfully practice law. As I understand, it largely has to do with the ability of, and/or how the individual processes complex problems and particular scenarios. It’s a cognitive test (an area I studied and worked in along with ethics before going into the study of law) that deals with logic, problem solving, processing of language, context, and of course, law. And I agree with #70 that it is not an accurate indicator of intelligence or a good indicator of how well a 1L may do. Sure, it’s helpful to schools in many respects but it’s so often given under such horrendous conditions - tremendous pressure, fail or receive a low score and all your hopes (or you parents expectations) of you becoming a lawyer may be completely dashed. Or at the very least, possibly delayed and might bring about issues re: self confidence for some people - people who could or will make for outstanding attorneys. I think that’s why some people, no matter how much study they did, might do poorly on the LSAT in spite of having a high GPA.

I do think that adversity and life experience can, and should count for a lot. For example, those who are older and have decided to return to school after some years in another profession.
Or perhaps, you have an individual who was faced with multiple lawsuits, had difficulty dealing with local attorneys for various reasons (small town, disagreements over how to handle the case(s), multiple state filings, etc.??) so they went pro se. Turns out they did very well against attorneys who were considered the top in the area - even getting one case pushed to the State Supreme Court. After all this they realized how much they enjoyed the study of law and now want to pursue a JD. An LSAT may be quite difficult and a GPA from 15-20 years prior….well, I’m not sure how that might be viewed.

I’ve actually heard several situations similar to this. I would like to see more law schools really take a good, hard look at the bigger picture re: the acceptance of a student. Look more closely at their community involvement and extracurricular activities. Maybe allow for or create better pre-law school programs such as clerkship, law research, ethics and other judicial assistant programs that could count towards a degree program if ultimately pursued.

The situation I described is what personally experienced. I had eight cases in a year that spanned three states. I had help on the ones in my home state but I was the one who basically did the majority of the research and strongly stated what I wanted to be presented. the background for the brief on case that was pushed the the Supreme Court was, in essence, done by me. I just lacked the legalese at the time. I either had my cases rightfully dismissed, won and/or was awarded what I sought.

However, my LSAT scores were just OK. But oddly enough, I took a multijurisdictional exam and aced it. Go figure.
Posted by Jason - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 6 hours, 59 minutes ago

Any objection to the value of LSAT scores is equally applicable to the value of the Bar exam. Neither of them adequately test the qualities that will make one a good attorney.

At the same time, it’s the best our system can come up with—to administer standardized tests to eliminate some lower percentage of performers on those tests. The alternative is simply unacceptable—to remove ANY sort of qualification or requirement. Sure, in the instant example the school will look at GPA and “level of adversity,“ but is GPA any more accurate at determining whether someone will be a good attorney?

To the folks suggesting the Bar exam should be done away with…There are enough horrible attorneys out there now, mangling the practice of law on a daily basis; the last thing our profession needs is an influx of EVEN MORE people who have had the bar lowered more than it is.

We’ve become a society that is afraid to acknowledge and reward intelligence, and every test or other intellectual rigor that we remove as an obstacle in the path of future professionals brings us that much closer to having a country full of lowest common denominators.

I would actually argue that the LSAT, in theory, is a better tool for measuring an individual’s intelligence in the areas most needed for the practice of law than the Bar exam. The Bar tests for rote memorization of legal principles and test-taking principles specific to the Bar exam. The LSAT tests critical thinking, writing skills, analytical skills, and linguistic ability. If someone did poorly on the LSAT but did well on the Bar, congrats, you’re an attorney, but can you speak English?

The point of the LSAT isn’t to make you a better attorney, as one poster suggests, or to determine whether you’re a good person. The point is to weed out those who are the worst of the bunch when it comes to articulating and understanding logical and linguistic arguments and ideas. I would prefer if institutions continue to do this for all prospective attorneys. Otherwise, we’ll have even more attorneys who fail to grasp the nuances and subtleties of our language when crafting an argument.

If I see one more new attorney whose English skills are at an 8th grade level, I will leave my firm and start a solo practice. It’s dynamite to our own profession, just waiting to explode.
Posted by Joseph Mansour, CFE, CPA, CEO, CFO - 1 month, 3 weeks, 5 days, 14 minutes ago

THe LSAT is supposed to give a measure of the sucess of the student in the first year of law school. LSAT does not measure the ability of the student to become a good or even great lawyer. We must develope a test using the best lawyers in America to see why they are the best. Then, prepare a model that will equate their talents. Law schools must look to development of our legal profession and the continued trust of the public. THe greaing up of the accademics in law school must change to the developement of good lawyers. This is a tough task. But the studies in law school must be applied towards that one goal. One good way is to prepare the students for the practice of law. This is not an objective now but should be. Why reinvent the wheel, take from the current lawyers in practice and develop a study program that will prepare the law student to become good or even great lawyers. The LSAT is considered only as one test for admissions, but it is the main test as law schools use this test as a measure of where they are in relations to other schools.
IN CONCLUSION, DEVELOP ANOTHER TEST THAT MEASURES ABILITY UNDER VARIABLE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT WILL COINCIDE WITH THE ATTRIBUTES THAT MAKES ONE A GREAT LAWYER. FINALLY FOR THOSE WHO ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE LSAT YOUR COPMPLAINTS FALLS ON DEAF EARS. AS THE SAYING GOES, THE LSAT IS PART OF THE SYSTEM, LIVE IN THE SYSTEM AND RECOMMEND A BETTER ONE. WHEN YOU PRACTICE LAW, AND DEFENDING A CLIENT BEFORE THE COURT ARE YOU GOING TO COMPLAIN THAT A CERTAIN LAW IS UNFAIR OR WILL YOU ATTACK THIS LAWS AND SHOW IT UNAPPLICABLE BASED ON YOUR CLIENTS FACTS AND CIRCUMSTANCES? BNE PREPARED ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITIES BUT MOST IMPORTANT CONTRIBUTE YOUR TALENTS TO IMPROVING OUR LEGAL SYSTEM BUT DO IT WITHIN THE LEGAL SYSTEM.
Posted by Eric Fisher - 1 month, 3 weeks, 4 days, 22 hours, 31 minutes ago

Michigan’s drropping of the LSAT requirements for Michigan students is nothing more than a cynical ploy to play up to US News & World Reports Rankings. If Michigan truly wanted an equitable system, it would discontinue the LSAT as an evaluative tool entirely.
Posted by Michael Toback - 1 month, 3 weeks, 4 days, 22 hours, 2 minutes ago

I don’t see anything wrong with this. Rensselaer Polytech had six year medical and law programs where a student would get his/her JD or MD along with the BS at the completion of both programs. No HS student would be asked to take the MCAT or LSAT. Yet the program turns out good attorneys and physicians. To me, this might be a way for U Mich to attract good HS students who would otherwise choose an Ivy.
Posted by James Du Pre - 1 month, 3 weeks, 4 days, 6 hours, 51 minutes ago

By disallowing UM students from taking the LSAT, they limit the availibility to prospective law schools for those students to only UM. That allows the UM law school first shot at them. Without the establjishment of a LSAT GPA what will GPA will the school report for those students? After law school, many firms and the governments request LSAT scores along with law school transcripts. How will a lack of an LSAT affect those students when competing for jobs? Long term, I think only weak students and law school candidates will benefit from this process. Those students will be suspect similar to any students who benefited from racial quotas or similar set aside programs.
Posted by Sean - 1 month, 3 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 57 minutes ago

I think Jason at #75 mirrors my opinion perfectly. We do not need to lower the standards to become an attorney any more than they already are.
Posted by Earl Baker - 1 month, 3 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 21 minutes ago

I guess UM doesn’t want any engineering or science students in their law school? I was an aerospace engineering major undergrad, and had nowhere near a 3.8 GPA. But I scored very well on the LSAT, and finished near the top of my class in law school (ahead of all the 4.0 students who majored in english, history, philosophy, etc…)
Posted by Rob - 1 month, 3 weeks, 2 days, 17 hours, 16 minutes ago

You are missing the point. This is to ensure that applicants do not apply to other law schools. If you are a Wolverine undergrad and consider other schools, you have to take the LSAT. Do that, and we’ll know you are a traitorous ingrate and not let you even apply to our law school.
Posted by T.C. Blake - 1 month, 3 weeks, 1 day, 21 hours, 23 minutes ago

My thinking is this, if I was a Michigan undergrad and wanted to go to another law school, but did not want to be hamstrung by a so so LSAT score, I would apply to the Wolverine Scholars Program, do a semester or even my first year and transfer out to the school of my choice, going to a school as a transfer student is not the same. what do you think?
Posted by tilsa - 1 month, 3 weeks, 1 day, 17 hours, 34 minutes ago

If the UM plan to eliminate the use of the LSAT in admissions ensures greater diversity, so much the better. Perhaps UM will also develop a means to increase compassion, honesty and integrity in the field of law.
Posted by RNA - 1 month, 3 weeks, 19 hours, 4 minutes ago

“Resiliance in dealing with adversity” does not equal affirmative action. To the extent that this creates an easier path to a top tier law school (which is debatable), this is the antithesis of affirmative action because it levels the playing field for all people who have overcome adversity regardless of race.

In order for this to be affirmative action, the following two statements must be true:
1. White people never experience any adversity; and
2. Race, and only race, is the direct proximate cause of why white people never face any adversity.

Note that if the above two statements are true, than programs like affirmative action are clearly justified.

If statements 1. and 2. above are false, than you should not (and cannot logically) call this program affirmative action.
Posted by RNA - 1 month, 3 weeks, 18 hours, 44 minutes ago

As a follow up to comment 85, for those of you claiming this is affirmative action, I suggest you work on strengthening your skills on the logic portion of the LSAT.
Posted by JJ - 1 month, 2 weeks, 5 days, 19 hours, 40 minutes ago

“Hmmm… I had unimpressive grades from a decent state university, and LSAT scores that were almost off the charts. Got me into a very good law school, where I won moot court AND wrote a law review article. ( Saved me from going to ‘nam as a snuffy.) I’ve had a wonderful, varied, 30+ year career doing the kind of practice I wanted. So, KEEP THE LSAT!“

So you owe your success to an exam and not to your hard work, ambition and dedication?

You can say “my high score proves all three characteristics listed above.“

What about entrepreneurs? Or any other successful person? Did they take the LSAT before they sought angel investors or any other form of venture capital?
Posted by JJ - 1 month, 2 weeks, 5 days, 19 hours, 34 minutes ago

Besides, maybe Michigan is being the innovator in proving that the LSAT exam is truly not an accurate measurement for success in law school.

Maybe there are other ways of measuring a person’s ability for success?

Place one of these silver spoon fed kids, whom never been in “the streets” - see how well they survive. Measure that for creativity to deal with adversity currently not measured by the LSAT.

Could be the beginning of creative destruction for the LSAT!
Posted by JJ - 1 month, 2 weeks, 5 days, 19 hours, 20 minutes ago

And one final note, I think this is not for diversity.

Minorities already “get a boost” in gpa as most of you claim. Go look up statistics of ugpa’s from african americans, hispanics, asians, and whites.

You tell me who is going to benefit from this program.
Posted by Thomas Cooley - 1 month, 2 weeks, 5 days, 18 hours, 45 minutes ago

Yeah, Michigan is now on par with Thomas Cooley law school. They admit everyone that breathes or is a minority. No wonder Michigan is a dump these days.

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