Features
What Women Lawyers Really Think of Each Other
We asked who they’d rather work with—men or women. The answers were surprising
February 2008 Issue
By Stephanie Francis Ward
Would women lawyers prefer to work with men or other women? The answer may depend on the age of the female lawyer you’re asking, an ABA Journal survey has found.
Of more than 1,400 respondents who answered the question, 58 percent said the gender of their colleagues made no difference, while 42 percent expressed a preference for working either with men or women.
Female supervisors age 40 and over who said gender mattered to them preferred working with women. About 80 percent said female lawyers take direction better, take constructive criticism better (59 percent) and have more discretion (79 percent).
But younger female attorneys who are following in the footsteps of that trailblazing generation don’t hold their older colleagues in such high regard. Among female lawyers under 40 who thought gender matters, 58 percent said male supervisors give better direction, give more constructive criticism (56 percent) and are better at keeping confidential information private (64 percent).
A total of 4,449 individuals who identified themselves as female attorneys answered all or part of the survey. The survey was co-authored by Linda Marks, director of the Center for WorkLife Law at the University of California’s Hastings College of the Law in San Francisco.
Why do opinions about the role of gender in the workplace depend on the age of the female attorney?
Some experts cite generational tension: Female lawyers entering the profession often don’t want to make the same personal sacrifices as their predecessors, and they question whether such sacrifices are even necessary to succeed. Senior women may not understand this mindset, much less realize that the playing field has changed, experts suggest. And that can block useful dialogue.
“I’m concerned that more senior women don’t fully understand the profound demographic changes taking place,” says Lauren Stiller Rikleen. A senior partner at Bowditch & Dewey in Framingham, Mass., she advises law firms about workplace issues. She also wrote Ending the Gauntlet: Removing Barriers to Women’s Success in the Law.
Rikleen says female partners often tell her that there will always be associates who, like themselves, will sacrifice their personal lives for successful careers. But she says younger men are also less willing to make the personal sacrifices of their predecessors.
“It’s not purely gender-based,” says Rikleen, a member of the American Bar Association’s Commission on Women in the Profession. “That says to me that if I’m a leader of a workplace, I need to think about what’s happening here in the future—and how to position this place.”
When Rikleen talks to younger women lawyers, she says, they’re often relieved that she understands their complaints. Women closer to her age are often surprised that she doesn’t share their perspective.
Arin Reeves, a Chicago lawyer who focuses on diversity consulting, also sees differing views between women younger than 35 and those older than 45. She mentions that when female partners develop a women’s initiative, the female associates generally don’t find it useful.
“There’s no such thing anymore of all the women being in the same boat, who need a particular set of strategies to be kept afloat. Now that women have a lot more models to choose from, they are becoming more selective as to which women they identify with.”
Women can be one another’s best advocates, but senior women lawyers need to understand that younger women can build careers differently, says Deborah Epstein Henry, an attorney who advises law firms on the retention and promotion of female lawyers. And younger women, Henry says, need to think about how they can have better relationships with senior female lawyers.
“They don’t have to be a role model in every capacity, but the junior women can select different things from different people,” Henry says. Her company, Flex-Time Lawyers, has chapters in New York City and Philadelphia, where members meet to network, share information and effect change in the workplace. “I really do believe that women need to move away from placing judgment on other women,” she says, “and accept more diversity among ourselves.”
Sidebar
METHODOLOGY
The ABA Journal and ABAJournal.com invited female lawyers to respond to a Web-based survey regarding their workplace experiences; the survey was open from May through July last year. The 4,449 who responded in this self-selecting survey were asked whether they perceived gender-related differences in workplace performance and behavior.
On most questions, a majority said they perceived no difference. But among those who perceived differences, some were dramatic. The following charts reflect the opinions of those who perceived gender differences.
The end of the questionnaire offered those surveyed the opportunity to share their thoughts or experiences anonymously. More than 600 did so, and selections from their comments appear throughout this article.
Women Under 40 Who Think Gender Matters Said:
Women Supervisors Over 40 Who Think Gender Matters Said:
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Comments
Posted by Erin - Feb 6, 2008 11:03 am CDT
"Female lawyers entering the profession often don’t want to make the same personal sacrifices as their predecessors, and they question whether such sacrifices are even necessary to succeed. Senior women may not understand this mindset, much less realize that the playing field has changed, experts suggest.”
I recently read a book called “The Feminine Mistake” by Leslie Bennetts. I am an attorney who “wants it all.” I do not want to give up my career that I have worked so hard for to stay at home to raise children and wait on my husband, yet I do not intend to sacrifice my family in order to achieve this. In order to allow lawyers like me to “have it all” the legal profession must adapt to the cultural changes taking place in America. There are many women and men who think like I do. I believe we CAN “have it all” but it will take some understanding at the top from those who took a different approach to making it to the top. Some very talented lawyers, men and women alike, want to succeed in the workplace AND at home. Apparently something needs to change in the legal profession. Why else are we one of the leading professions to suffer from alcohol and substance abuse and why do we have one of the highest suicide rates?
Posted by alo - Feb 8, 2008 09:17 am CDT
As a female associate with approximately 40 male supervisors and 4 female supervisors, I’d be much more interested to hear these questions put to male partners. That has more relevance to my work life. There are certainly obstacles to work-life balance in law firms, but I have this small voice telling me that women partners’ views are the least of the problem.
Anyway, isn’t some type of control group or comparator needed to make these numbers meaningful? Otherwise, it looks like the point of this article is: Females in the workplace?! CAT FIGHT!!
Posted by Arnold Grothues - Feb 8, 2008 09:34 am CDT
I think you might be seeing similar differences in viewpoints between younger women and women over 40 reflected in the Democratic primary. But in my opinion, for the most part this difference in views reflects broader generational differences that aren’t gender specific, e.g. the differences in how Gen Y and Gen X view things and how boomers view things.
Posted by disappointed - Feb 8, 2008 09:48 am CDT
This sort of “reporting” can only be detrimental to our profession and the integration and recognization of women as equals in the workplace. The real story here is that 58% of respondents said gender didn’t matter, but that gets brushed aside for the jucier minority view that woman don’t want to be supervised by women. What a complete disservice to women lawyers!
Posted by Dan - Feb 8, 2008 10:03 am CDT
Why is this a surprise?
Just remember this: The younger female lawyers likely still have their looks, and the older ones likely don’t. NOW look at the survey and see if you can figure it out…
Posted by Steve Perkins - Feb 8, 2008 10:31 am CDT
A minority of people find it easier to connect (not referring to romance) with those of the opposite sex than with those of the same gender. I am male, but a majority of my friends and professional mentors are female for a number of reasons… better communicators, less ego and unneccesary competitiveness, easier to lower your guard, etc. These friends and colleagues tell me that it’s easier for them to have such relationships with men than with women… we’re more straightforward, less drama, no cattiness.
All that said, I think comment #3 hit the nail on the head. The survey reported that almost 60% of women could care less either way… and yet this story revolves around patterns in the minority. Cheap-heat headline.
Posted by H.V. Baxendale - Feb 8, 2008 11:20 am CDT
Every young female applicant says the prospect of having children won’t affect her work; most have no way of knowing. Every employer, regardless of gender, having lost countless “investments” in female associates, knows it is a bad bet to believe this will happen. It is illegal to discuss the dynamic, and to consider it “out loud” in the hiring decision, but everyone does. It’s reality--the reality that the demands of the typical law firm practice and the demands of motherhood do not mix, most of the time. You can’t be successful in litigation or M&A in a mid to large firm if you have to leave at 3:00. Call it prejudice or safe bets, the managers, male and female, base their hiring and case management decisions on this. You end up with female senior associates/junior partners who are miserable as mothers and miserable as lawyers, and managers frustrated as well.
Now, before you start a flurry of counterexamples, we are talking stats and generalizations. Most does not equal all. There are many many exceptions to the work process, and many of those who succeed at motherhood and law. But doesn’t this help explain some of the tensions we are discussing?
Posted by Lindsey - Feb 8, 2008 11:51 am CDT
I think comment #6 reflects an old-fashioned notion of what it means to parent and work. I am in law school and have a child, but I worked prior to school and did not find it difficult to balance my very demanding career with my parenting. In addition, I was raised by two working parents who picked me up after 5, had rewarding careers, and a healthy family life.
Working and parenting mix just fine, and in fact I thrive on the time I spend with my child when it is balanced with the time I spend away from her.
It’s true that I won’t choose to work more than 50 hours in a week on a regular basis, but that is as much for my own sanity and health as it is for my family life. Work should not dominate your life so much that you cannot enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Having not yet started working as a lawyer, I don’t know the prevailing attitudes regarding how much time one is expected to give. However, at a recent lunch with the Bexar Women’s Bar Association, the speakers (a litigator, judge, and in-house counsel) all spoke about the balance that men and women are seeking and reaching in their professional and family lives.
Posted by Mr. Mom - Feb 8, 2008 11:53 am CDT
Hadley:
One point made here in the comments that you overlook: it is increasingly less an issue of the tension between being a mother and being a lawyer, but between being a parent and a lawyer. That is why something has to change.
When you think about it, after about a year (all circumstances vary) there is really no reason why a mother NEEDS to be the primary caregiver. The fact that such beliefs exist is a cultural creation. I believe we are moving to a model where the old distinction is blurred or erased (much faster than I thought posible) and firms and other businesses will have to deal with that.
Posted by Female lawyer - Feb 8, 2008 12:29 pm CDT
I am a female lawyer in her early 30s working at a small law firm that is primarily female. I personally don’t like it. The environment at my firm can be very catty and gossippy and downright unprofessional. I’d prefer working for men because they bring less of their “home life drama” to work than women do. But thats just my personal opinion.
Posted by another female lawyer - Feb 8, 2008 02:29 pm CDT
I am an attorney in my late 20’s working is an all female law firm & I really dislike it--- competitive, territorial, secretive, passive aggressive--- all coated with sugary sweet syrup. Give me a male screamer as a supervising partner over this any day.
Posted by H.V.Baxendale - Feb 8, 2008 04:38 pm CDT
Lindsey: If you go into interviews with typical midsize to large firms and declare “It’s true that I won’t choose to work more than 50 hours in a week on a regular basis” you will not get an offer. Period. Forget what they say at brunches; it’s like the same line on every firm’s website about “we want our attorneys to balance work and their outside lives.” Which is my point: what is said is not the unspoken attitude, but the latter decides. And while I agree with Mr.Mom that things are changing, and with others that what things ought to be is not what they are, my comment just goes to the cold reality that is. The “cultural creation” is driving the bus. I acknowledge there are exceptions, but maintain that when the child is sick or other emergencies, it is MOST TIMES the mother who gets the call.
Posted by lgs - Feb 8, 2008 04:41 pm CDT
The real story is that nearly 60 percent said the gender of their colleagues made no difference - its a shame that the minority view gets the headline.
Posted by http://womeninlawdaily.wordpress.com - Feb 11, 2008 10:38 pm CDT
I hope the ABA Journal will do a followup article dissecting why the majority 58% thinks that gender doesn’t matter.
Posted by Elly - Feb 12, 2008 03:40 pm CDT
#6 is a pig. Just cause you have a kid doesn’t mean you have to leave at 3. It’s called daycare or a stay at home dad (like my husband, to whom I am extremely greatful for not having the brains of a pig.) Also, I tend to agree with 10. I used to work in a predominantly female office and the lack of gender balance was disturbing in the exact way she describes. I think women are still trying to figure out how to sport the role of ‘have it all’ professionals - why else would we even talk about any of this as news?
Overall things are getting better for women, especially given the proliferation of portable devices like blackberries, teleconference equipment, electronic filing, and remote desktops. I look forward to the day when the likes of #6 die out, hopefully of some horribly painful disease, and none of this “OMG/ Oh how cute! she’s a woman lawyer!!” business will be news any more.
Posted by Erin - Feb 18, 2008 12:30 pm CDT
I don’t think No. 6 is a pig. He truly is speaking the truth that working women are trying to overcome in OUR GENERATION of law practice. What he says is true and it is what drives our generation to seek change in law practice and it is also what creates the barrier between more seasoned lawyers and the younger generation which is seeking a better way for ourselves and our families. Often, the older generation mistakes this want for change as laziness or a lowel level of committment.
With respect to the gender issue, I have found a general lack of female role models at least in my firm. It appears to me that most women decide to “opt out” before becoming firm policymakers, reinforcing my first comment. The women already at the top got there by taking the route that men take. I think the newer generation is simply seeking to change the route to the top and minimize the “truth” spoken by No. 6.